Santa Clara Vanguard 2023 Announcement Thread

[Tenoris4Jazz]

11 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Yes, there is teaching, even at a higher level BUT it's teaching the way their staff member wants things done. Which isn't a bad thing for a top level. 

Actual teaching (from scratch) happens much more at the OC level.

I hate to pull this one up, but... Jim Ott.  He never taught SOA's horn line to play scales or arpeggios.  He taught them how to breathe, how to hear the ensemble, and how to crank it when it was called for.  He also carried a baritone bugle around and played in the arc on a regular basis.  Spirit's '77 horn line wasn't anything special.  They came in 17th in brass, and they didn't get a ton of high end talent in '78 to come in, but Jim elevated that group to God-status come finals night in 1978.  They scored a 14/15 in brass ensemble... and Devils came in 2nd with a 13... a full point behind.  They won High Brass a year after finishing 17th.  That's teaching.

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Because, IMHO (and I am sure others) using audition camps (raising hopes) to make money while filling your ranks is wrong at multiple levels.  This is probably the only activity that charges its own to compete at a world level.  Making money on auditions means that they are charging too much and automatically excluding people from certain social and economic classes.  Whether this is done in ignorance or on purpose is yet to be determined.  In other words quit paying lip service to being inclusive and do something about it.

many kids know they won't make it. they go to gain the experience for when they can make it

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Yes, there is teaching, even at a higher level BUT it's teaching the way their staff member wants things done. Which isn't a bad thing for a top level. 

Actual teaching (from scratch) happens much more at the OC level.

teaching at a high level music school is often how the teacher wants it done also. 

[C.Holland]

1 hour ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

I hate to pull this one up, but... Jim Ott.  He never taught SOA's horn line to play scales or arpeggios.  He taught them how to breathe, how to hear the ensemble, and how to crank it when it was called for.  He also carried a baritone bugle around and played in the arc on a regular basis.  Spirit's '77 horn line wasn't anything special.  They came in 17th in brass, and they didn't get a ton of high end talent in '78 to come in, but Jim elevated that group to God-status come finals night in 1978.  They scored a 14/15 in brass ensemble... and Devils came in 2nd with a 13... a full point behind.  They won High Brass a year after finishing 17th.  That's teaching.

Apples and forks mate.  Different systems of evaluation, different demands, it’s a very different era.  

[Mello Dude]

7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

many kids know they won't make it. they go to gain the experience for when they can make it

Many more think they can.

[cixelsyd]

22 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

Because, IMHO (and I am sure others) using audition camps (raising hopes) to make money while filling your ranks is wrong at multiple levels.  This is probably the only activity that charges its own to compete at a world level.  Making money on auditions means that they are charging too much and automatically excluding people from certain social and economic classes.  Whether this is done in ignorance or on purpose is yet to be determined.  In other words quit paying lip service to being inclusive and do something about it.

Acknowledged, and agreed.  But that ship has sailed.

1.  Those who led the activity since 1972 have been continually raising the cost of the activity, in stark contrast to those who led the activity prior.

2.  The activity derives the majority of its financing from member fees.  

It seems pretty clear that the people who usher in these changes, lecture us on operating more like a business, and take zero accountability for the 90% decline in corps population can barely find the time to provide that lip service.  In fact, many of them spend their off-seasons making the marching band and winter guard activities more expensive too.  Now even the scholastic activities are pricing less affluent communities out of the pageantry arts.

This is not the first time you, I or others have pointed out how the emperor has no clothes.  But this emperor is a proud nudist.

[Slingerland]

19 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

 

2.  The activity derives the majority of its financing from member fees.  

 

Not accurate. Looking at the numbers for many of the top corps, member fees are still less than half of the total revenues generated, all of which are targeted toward providing the members the experience of doing the drum corps thing.
 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Slingerland

[IllianaLancerContra]

5 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

Not accurate. Looking at the numbers for many of the top corps, member fees are still less than half of the total revenues generated, all of which are targeted toward providing the members the experience of doing the drum corps thing.
 

150 members x $5000 = $750,000.  
It may not be the majority of the budget, but I bet it is at least the plurality of the budget. 

[MarimbaManiac]

22 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

There is a difference between higher ed teaching and drum corps.  If you have done both, which I have, drum corps teaches about 5 minutes of ensemble playing.  They train for this for the better part of a year.  This is not teaching, or rather this is teaching for the non-real world.  The goes back to the days of teaching by wrote.  The level of talent that is simply going over and over the same music (and using a lot of time for it)...is not realistic.  Deluding yourself that you are teaching someone that this is already a very good player, to play even better the same music is a fallacy.

You have a very skewed view of what drum corps is teaching you. Besides the "5 minutes" of ensemble playing they are also teaching you complex movements, breath control and ability to execute simultaneous demand while ensemble playing, learning quickly and adapting to change as there are constant adjustments being made all around you, spatial awareness and the ability to track what the 150 other members are doing all around you, and your place in the larger group. They are teaching higher level skills but they are still teaching. Compare that to a beginning music technology course where they teach you the basics of synthesis and how to use the tools available, and those more advanced courses teaching psychoacoustics, interactivity, and cross platform interconnectivity. They are still teaching even though they don't touch the basics within their course, they just elevate the basic knowledge to a higher level with more nuance and detail. 

You might want to minimize everything that's happening there, but it's making you sound irrational and out of touch with reality.  

Edited January 4, 2023 by MarimbaManiac

[MarimbaManiac]

20 hours ago, C.Holland said:

grad school teaches you how to teach yourself.   World Class Drum corps is defining show needs.  Its very much like Broadway.  They're not teaching you how to (dance, play, spin, drum, etc) they're teaching you what the show needs.  

The less time you spend teaching the basics, the more time you get to define, and elevate the design.   

IF world class was actually about education, you wouldnt see corps ads for "We are searching for YOU (Lead trumpet/feature dancer/percussion feature...etc)" and instead they'd elevate the performers who auditioned to in the first place.  not have to search and create a "deal" with a feature which the show cannot live without. 

Yes, you've said that before and continue to harp on the calls for mid season performers, but that one example doesn't negate the actual teaching that's happening in these organizations. The pre-season and spring training are spent teaching the corps specific way to execute playing and movement, and teach the awareness needed to execute that within the ensemble. Those periods are heavily weighted towards training with minimal design or learning of the actual show happening. A certain level of performer is required to join in December and learn the actual skills necessary to allow the design teams to do their jobs. If they need someone to join in the summer, that's an entirely different level of performer than one who starts in December. 

The claims that minimize of education within these ensembles is absurd, and leads one to believe that those making those claims are really stretching to make their arguments about the larger activity stick.