The Staff Merry-go-round

[scheherazadesghost]

6 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

Well, I guess I would have to respectfully disagree with this assessment .

While NFL Refs can make calls that sometimes effect the outcome , it is rare given all the games that are played in the league , especially now that there is instant video review available . Besides , NFL refs don’t pick winners . Their primary function is to enforce the rules of the game and let the players on the field determine the winner . The players make the scores in the game , not the refs 

DCI on the other hand do indeed pick winners . As a group they pick the winner of the competition out there on the  football field . Individually , the individual judges even pick the winner in their caption as they determine the scores . Those in competition on the field in DCI Drum Corps do not score . The scores are provided by the judges . This is why , imo , the skill and experience level of the DCI judges are far more critical to the endeavor, as unlike NFL refs , they actually pick the winner of the competition .

Okay well, feel free to look into other sports/activities that are similar enough to DCI to meet your benchmark.

I just think that the potential pressure weighing on NFL refs is much much much higher, which despite the lesser skill you assign them, means they're far more vulnerable to fans that hate them for their calls. And yet, their qualifications are public. That's my point.

[Boss Anova]

43 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Okay well, feel free to look into other sports/activities that are similar enough to DCI to meet your benchmark.

I just think that the potential pressure weighing on NFL refs is much much much higher, which despite the lesser skill you assign them, means they're far more vulnerable to fans that hate them for their calls. And yet, their qualifications are public. That's my point.

 I dont disagree with this point of yours.

 I even make the assessment that , on the whole, we are far, far more civil to DCI Judges as a fan base than the NFL fan base is to NFL refs..  The NFL even protects the overzealous and undue scrutiny of first year NFL refs, as they do not put them in for duty in the Super Bowl. Neither will we see 1st year NBA refs doing NBA finals, NHL 1st year umpires doing Stanley Cup finals, MLB 1st year umpires doing the World Series Finals, nor 1st year College Basketball Refs doing the NCAA Final Four.  DCI has no qualms however putting 1st year DCI Judges into the heat of judging at Championships.  Thats fine too. If they're qualified and experienced judging field shows, why not. I'm just pointing out that it is unusual to see such in other competition endeavors, and unlike the NFL, the DCI judges make the scores and pick the winners, and thus far more skill and experience and assessment skills in the competition is of course far more critical than that required of an NFL ref imo.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Boss Anova

[Sutasaurus]

4 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

 I dont disagree with this point of yours.

 I even make the assessment that , on the whole, we are far, far more civil to DCI Judges as a fan base than the NFL fan base is to NFL refs.. 

After reading some of the vitriol that’s been posted here I’m rethinking the civil part of your post.

Flame away!

[Grandpa Joe]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:02 PM, TheOneWhoKnows said:

Lol, it sure is funny gramps. 

I see the correlation of "I don't get how this show won" to "I must know every detail about the judge that allowed this show to win" 

No, you just don't understand the scoring process and the philosophy behind the criteria. 

Telling someone who is literally in the industry that they don't know understand how the scoring process works is one of the funniest things I've ever read on here. Good joke.

If BOA, WGI, and local marching band circuits can share their judge's bios, then there's absolutely no reason why DCI can't either. It's not always about "I muse know every detail about the judge that allowed this show to win." You can miss me with that thought process, because that's not coming from me. I simply like to know who judges, what qualifies them to judge, and where they've taught. I don't need to know how many kids they have and what the name of their dog is. This isn't Tinder.

[karuna]

1.  Judges bios do not indicate their competence to judge a caption.  Their tapes and their sheets (together) do.   Fans don’t get to hear or see them.  But corps staffs do and they are the ultimate authority in determining competency.  If you’re awful the corps themselves will show you the door. 
    
2. Fans don’t need to see judging qualifications.  The only reason it was raised here was dissatisfaction with a result. Hoping perhaps that stirring up some trouble for someone they don’t know at all on the interwebs would help their team out next season i guess. Anyway ….
3. Fans get to watch.   They don’t get to play the game.  If you want to play the game, go teach or judge.  Otherwise , have some popcorn and post on DCP!
4. As for what other circuits do,  if you think about who reads those bios (mostly parents who really have no idea what it all means) it’s basically a placebo to stop parents from complaining about incompetent judging.  They will complain anyway but it works at least for some parents. And that makes it worthwhile.   
    

addendum:  After re reading number 4,  yes DCI should post the bios.   The placebo effect is quite real.  

Edited August 27, 2023 by karuna

[Chief Guns]

20 minutes ago, karuna said:

1.  Judges bios do not indicate their competence to judge a caption.  Their tapes and their sheets (together) do.   Fans don’t get to hear or see them.  But corps staffs do and they are the ultimate authority in determining competency.  If you’re awful the corps themselves will show you the door. 
    
2. Fans don’t need to see judging qualifications.  The only reason it was raised here was dissatisfaction with a result. Hoping perhaps that stirring up some trouble for someone they don’t know at all on the interwebs would help their team out next season i guess. Anyway ….
3. Fans get to watch.   They don’t get to play the game.  If you want to play the game, go teach or judge.  Otherwise , have some popcorn and post on DCP!
4. As for what other circuits do,  if you think about who reads those bios (mostly parents who really have no idea what it all means) it’s basically a placebo to stop parents from complaining about incompetent judging.  They will complain anyway but it works at least for some parents. And that makes it worthwhile.   
    

addendum:  After re reading number 4,  yes DCI should post the bios.   The placebo effect is quite real.  

I would like this 100 times if I could. 

Sadly your post will fall on deaf ears as soon as 2024 season starts and corps A is beating corps B, or corps C is beating corps D in GE and we (In general) don't like it. 

[Jeff Ream]

55 minutes ago, karuna said:

1.  Judges bios do not indicate their competence to judge a caption.  Their tapes and their sheets (together) do.   Fans don’t get to hear or see them.  But corps staffs do and they are the ultimate authority in determining competency.  If you’re awful the corps themselves will show you the door. 
    
2. Fans don’t need to see judging qualifications.  The only reason it was raised here was dissatisfaction with a result. Hoping perhaps that stirring up some trouble for someone they don’t know at all on the interwebs would help their team out next season i guess. Anyway ….
3. Fans get to watch.   They don’t get to play the game.  If you want to play the game, go teach or judge.  Otherwise , have some popcorn and post on DCP!
4. As for what other circuits do,  if you think about who reads those bios (mostly parents who really have no idea what it all means) it’s basically a placebo to stop parents from complaining about incompetent judging.  They will complain anyway but it works at least for some parents. And that makes it worthwhile.   
    

addendum:  After re reading number 4,  yes DCI should post the bios.   The placebo effect is quite real.  

in a local circuit that did post them, a judges employer got calls from disgruntled parents saying "hey your employee screwed my kid".

 

and that was before the world went as crazy as it is now

[Boss Anova]

11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

in a local circuit that did post them, a judges employer got calls from disgruntled parents saying "hey your employee screwed my kid".

 

and that was before the world went as crazy as it is now

..... and before lawyers found ways to successfully and profitably sue harassers that stalked employees at their place of employment.

 We can always find outlier examples on why something can't be done.

 Many of the DCI judges judge in WGI, DCI, ...and a few even do WGI, DCI,  BOA.  As far as I know, nobody has stalked judges at their place of employment in DCI Drum Corps. As a matter of fact, I read little to no vitriol on any judge who judged Championships this season here on DCP. if a question is asked about a judge a fan or fans have never heard of before,  its a legitimate inquiry borne of innocuous curiosity, imo.... especially when, unlike WGI ( for example ), the Bios of judges are readily made public. 

Long before DCI, there has been criticisms on occasion of judges. It goes with the job of judging and scoring something so subjective as Drum Corps in competition. That won't change, whether the bios are made public or not. Transparancy is a good thing, not a bad thing. Knowledge is a good thing, not a bad thing.  Stifling legitimate inquiry and knowlege seeking on how competitions are judged, and a little bio on the professional experience in the Marching Arts of the judges can go a long way in helping the public and new fans/ marchers to the activity become better informed and likely far more trusting of the endeavor, a few cranks notwithstanding.

  Finally, looking over social media both on here and elsewhere, as near as I can tell most fans are accepting of the results, and any fear that by posting the bios of DCI Judges that a DCI Judge might be stalked at their place of employment because a couple of local unruly band parents harrassed the judge at his place of employment years ago in a local marching band circuit, is no justification for limiting the education of the vast amount of fans simply wanting to learn more, and with no intentions of harrassing anyone either on social media, nor at their place of business.

  DCI has periodic reviews of its judges, and historically has been able to withstand fan criticisms and either remove or retain judges without fan interference. That would likely continue with or without the fans learning more about how competitions are judged and scored, and the citing of professional backgrounds and experiences of the judges in the Marching Arts..

Edited August 27, 2023 by Boss Anova

[LabMaster]

nm

[TexasPRfan]

It sure would make far more sense too have a separate thread for all this judges crap and let this thread actually be for what the title implies...