DCI and SOA being sued?

[craiga]

I just have a couple thoughts...first, if some people think that member safety has not gotten dramatically better in the last 50 years, they haven't been paying attention.  Member health, safety, and nutrition are light years ahead of where they were even just 10 years ago. I don't think that some people here have even been around a drum corps in person in years....they are run nothing like they were back in the day.  The drum corps I support has full time med staff,(with complete autonomy btw)specific reporting officers, procedures and regular, ongoing, compulsory training for all members and staff. If you're a member, you literally can't even rehearse without it....for staff, you can't even be in front of the members or get paid.  And, I would be shocked if any other corps in 2023 isn't providing the exact same level of protections. 

Secondly, I don't understand why a few people seem to think that organizations like SafeSport, MAASIN or even DCI itself have legal powers they choose not to use.  Their hearts are clearly in the right place, but none of them have anything approaching legal powers.   Only law enforcement has those, which is why we should encourage all members to seek immediate help from law enforcement as soon as something occurs.  Law enforcement is quite aggressive at going after predators but they need to be informed asap when there is an incident.

[JimF-LowBari]

So if members feel harassed, abused or just unsafe they should go to corps leaders and/or SafeSport. SafeSport keeps track of reports and notifies DCI.

AND THATS ####### IT!?!?!?!?

Ok members, screw the corps, screw DCI and screw SafeSport. Get your parents/guardian to contact a lawyer so they know what can be done legally and which police jurisdiction should be notified. And go directly to that jurisdictions law enforcement if needed.

Edited October 12, 2023 by JimF-LowBari

[Lance]

Member safety needs to get a lot better. 

Victims have myriad reasons not to go directly to law enforcement after being abused.   

Law enforcement does not always act aggressively to bring justice to victims, though movements like Me Too and decades of activism before that have made it better.  But it still needs to get a lot better.  As it does, you'll see an increase in victims going to law enforcement more quickly. 

Any conversation begins there.  Anything else is people reframing their victim blaming.  

 

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

As the details haven’t been released yet we don’t know the reasons for the suit. If it was because SoA/DCI knew of problems and did nothing I don’t know of any criminal law that apply. A new SoA BoD gave up a season to try to straighten out their mess. I didn’t see that DCI had been involved in any way.

And not a fan of “innocent people have already been hurt so why hurt them more by going after the guilty”. If victim(s) want to go thru the hell of testifying, etc to make sure justice is done then more power to them

the student in question went public after that season with their stated version of events and timelines, that showed per them, Spirit and DCI knew. shortly after Spirit pulled the plug on 2022. so whatever didn't happen since then has led to the lawsuit

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

What is success?  Success is no one gets sexually abused in a drum corps again. If SOA taking a one year timeout doesn’t do it, and spoiler alert, it won’t, then more needs to be done. I’m sorry if that means we miss our 10 minute pageantry shows until DCI takes this seriously instead of the empty words we’re getting from them now. 

i am really hoping given the new CEO's background, this #### gets squared away and fast.

[scheherazadesghost]

No TLDR here. This is all important for those who still bother to read through this mess. (Edit to add: actually, just read @Lance's post above for a TLDR.)

I haven't seen anyone here argue that things haven't gotten better in the last number of decades. I see people saying it's not good enough yet. There's a big difference there. And the people saying the latter are doing so because there are too many young people who have marched in the last 5 years telling us they had adverse experiences marching. The training isn't enough. Period. I've been saying that since I came back two years ago. It simply isn't. There are still members marching in 2023 who don't know who to report their experiences to, or even if they have the right to report their concerns. That's a serious problem. And solutions and improvements presented aren't cutting it. Sorry DCI and drum corps, no cookie for you.

The abuses that some survivors endured do not fall under the jurisdiction of authorities like the police. Mine didn't and a solid chunk of the nearly 60 instances that have been disclosed to me that happened at Vanguard didn't either. There is no law against the psychological abuse that happens to young adults in drum corps. There is no law against weigh ins. There is no law against the behaviors that have lead to decades' long eating disorders. I've spoken to a current-cop in the Santa Clara region about these things. There's nothing they can do. In those cases, yes, the wimpy whistleblowing entities available are the only recourse.

Of course, if the abuse endured can be reported to police that should be considered an option. But young people don't go into drum corps knowing when these kinds of behaviors cross that threshold (because they don't go in expecting these things to happen in a youth arts education setting.) And if they don't have the family/loved one support to help them identify that, sometimes going to MAASIN or other some such entities can help advise them about next steps. While limiting additional retraumatization.

Very few situations here are as black-and-white as automatically, immediately go to the cops. They simply aren't. Young people need help identifying that until the drum corps reporting and training gets better. Because the drum corps should be making that abundantly clear, as well as following through with reporting structures when their procedures require this of them. I think some are getting better, but again, obviously not fast enough.

1 hour ago, JimF-LowBari said:

So if members feel harassed, abused or just unsafe they should go to corps leaders and/or SafeSport. SafeSport keeps track of reports and notifies DCI.

AND THATS ####### IT!?!?!?!?

Ok members, screw the corps, screw DCI and screw SafeSport. Get your parents/guardian to contact a lawyer so they know what can be done legally and which police jurisdiction should be notified. And go directly to that jurisdictions law enforcement if needed.

Respectfully, no. Survivors can go to SS, but that's not generally what I advise, because again, SS barely tracks what happens in non-NGBs. I have never gotten the sense that they report back to DCI. So no. Again, no. They are advisory only. In the same vein as The Army of Survivors and the Courage First Athletes Helpline.

Going to a lawyer is an option, but not all young people will have access to that resource. And again, not all abuses fall under the jurisdiction of police in their region. I'm not saying don't do these things, I'm saying it's important to keep in mind the complex constellation of resources, and never assume that all of those resources are always available to young people. Nor that all survivors should always take the same route.

Also, going to the police can be just as retraumatizing as any of the other entities. So to assume that's a quick fix is also problematic, especially if young people don't have a solid, reliable support system backing them. Same for lawyers, who ideally have their client's best interest in mind, but who are known for having ulterior motives as well. MAASIN is the only entity that appears, by my own experience, to keep this complex constellation of resources in mind when advising survivors. Even MAASIN has their own motives though and many of their staff are working for drum corps.  Still, they also have mental health professionals on their team, something none of the other entities so far mention maintain. THIS IS KEY, as they are the only ones to prioritize the mental health of survivors. DCI doesn't do that. Drum corps rarely, if ever, do that.

A young person who goes to a drum corps assuming they'll have a positive experience, who then is demolished by abuse, is quite very likely traumatized. Assuming they have the capacity to go to the police or to a lawyer means those making the assumptions don't know what supporting survivors is actually like. I've spoken to people whose abuses happened decades ago who are still traumatized by them. The young people today who are able to access resources like the police and lawyers are outliers in my experience. Amazing ones. Courageous ones. But, especially if young people have limited support circles, one should not assume that the police and lawyers are automatically the best route. Sometimes, they can severely exacerbate poor mental health.

Each case is incredibly unique. There is no silver bullet. Perhaps I should make a flow chart 'cause you can't assume what has worked for one survivor will work for another. And then, to assume that drum corps want anything to do with righting individual situations is also wrong. In my experience, they've already moved on and ONLY want to extract teachable moments and solutions from those survivors, rather than apologizing for the mistake and doing the work of reconciliation.

Edited October 12, 2023 by scheherazadesghost

[HockeyDad]

2 hours ago, craiga said:

Secondly, I don't understand why a few people seem to think that organizations like SafeSport, MAASIN or even DCI itself have legal powers they choose not to use.  Their hearts are clearly in the right place, but none of them have anything approaching legal powers.   

When the day comes that the #### hits the fan, I want to see DCI shrug their shoulders and claim there was nothing they could do because you see, “DCI is the corps.”  Yes, I want to see how far that flies. 
Take charge DCI. Whether you think you have the authority or not, do it anyway. You will discover that the corps will follow your lead. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by MikeD
Filter circumvention

[mingusmonk]

2 hours ago, craiga said:

Secondly, I don't understand why a few people seem to think that organizations like SafeSport, MAASIN or even DCI itself have legal powers they choose not to use.  Their hearts are clearly in the right place, but none of them have anything approaching legal powers.   Only law enforcement has those, which is why we should encourage all members to seek immediate help from law enforcement as soon as something occurs.  Law enforcement is quite aggressive at going after predators but they need to be informed asap when there is an incident.

 

1 hour ago, Lance said:

Member safety needs to get a lot better. 

Victims have myriad reasons not to go directly to law enforcement after being abused.   

Law enforcement does not always act aggressively to bring justice to victims, though movements like Me Too and decades of activism before that have made it better.  But it still needs to get a lot better.  As it does, you'll see an increase in victims going to law enforcement more quickly. 

Any conversation begins there.  Anything else is people reframing their victim blaming.  

 

This very case is bound to get into the territory of law enforcement involvement. While it may seem black and white: Called police = justice was served, the details and timelines of this incident that were shared initially will likely show the grey areas and pitfalls of those assumptions. 

[rjohn76]

1 hour ago, HockeyDad said:

When the day comes that the #### hits the fan, I want to see DCI shrug their shoulders and claim there was nothing they could do because you see, “DCI is the corps.”  Yes, I want to see how far that flies. 
Take charge DCI. Whether you think you have the authority or not, do it anyway. You will discover that the corps will follow your lead. 

Taking charge when they don't have the legal authority to do so could also land DCI (or any other entity) on the receiving end of a lawsuit (ex. wrongful termination, defamation, etc.).  There's a fine line between being proactive in the interest of member safety, and being reckless in the pursuit of member safety.

[JimF-LowBari]

Just wanted to clear up when I said go to a lawyer or law enforcement I meant when the victim feels ready to do so (and sometimes that is never). Same thing as going to corps staff or SafeSport. Sometimes a victim may feel ready to report right away and sometimes never. And of course some issues do not qualify as a crime so not something the police would handle.
My wording got bad because I got frustrated realizing SafeSport is for reporting only and any action depends on DCI policing itself. IOW sounds good on the surface but when you think about it…
 

Edited October 12, 2023 by JimF-LowBari