Michael Boo Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Remember when Coke changed it's formula so it would taste more like Pepsi? It was a bloody disaster. No, it was a brilliant marketing ploy. Many analysts believe the Coca-Cola Co. knew it could cash in by unveiling Coke Classic and getting even more people to drink the beverage than were drinking it before. And after the introduction of Coke Classic, they experienced record profits and market share. It's the old expression of crazy...like a fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 No, it was a brilliant marketing ploy. Many analysts believe the Coca-Cola Co. knew it could cash in by unveiling Coke Classic and getting even more people to drink the beverage than were drinking it before. And after the introduction of Coke Classic, they experienced record profits and market share.It's the old expression of crazy...like a fox. New Coke. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 To mirror a lot of the posts here, change is bad when it's quickly and drastically applied against the popular opinion of the masses. An example I like is the Ohio State University Marching Band. The band was formed in 1878 as a fife and drum corps. It became a standard marching band shortly after, and by the early 1900 was put under control of the ROTC program. By 1934, woodwind instruments were removed from the band, making it all brass. In 1936, they started doing the trademark Script Ohio. In 1940, trombones were replaced by valved trombonium horns. The next changes occurred in the 1960s when more popular music, instead of traditional marches started to be played. Then in the 1970s, women were allowed, as well as a large expansion of the band. The uniforms changed very little until the 1980s, when color highlights were added. Trombones were re-added in the 1980s. In the late 1990s, the Eb alto horns were replaced by F mellophones, and bass trombones were added to the trombone line. In 2006, the bass drum line was upgraded from two tone to four tone basses. The band still wears the same style uniform, without major changes, has the same basic instrumentation, and still does not have a full time pit or color guard/drill team. These changes were hard to make because of the alumni, who have to vote on all changes to the band. These alumni know what tradition is and how to keep things new while still maintaining the same basic style. Going back to drum corps: I feel that changes can be made to some point before it no longer is drum corps. That line was crossed years ago though. The name of the activity is Drum and Bugle Corps. Drums are percussion, pit equipment includes drums and pitched percussion. Since it is a form of percussion, it's ok to me. I personally don't know much about guard activities, but it adds to the show on the field and is a vital part of the entire show atmosphere. Bugle, in the drum corps definition, is a morphing term. A dictionary will tell you a bugle is a brass instrument with no valves. In the drum corps perspective, it became a brass instrument with a conical bore in the key of G, or Bb in the case of some of the Canadian corps. When the change to any key occurred, bugles, the other fundamental half of the activity, ceased to exist. Sure, in corps themselves, you still have the terms soprano, contra, etc. However, trumpets and marching tubas are not sopranos and contras in the traditional respect. As such, drum corps even with Bb horns are drum and marching brass ensembles. Now with electronics, which have, in my opinion, no use, and woodwinds, which are not sturdy, stable, or loud enough in small numbers to be useful on a marching field, the entire fabric of the activity has changed. I've been to a few marching band competitions with some very good clarinet and saxophone lines, but their numbers were equal or greater than that of the brass. Either brass numbers are going to have to be cut, or more spots will need to be added. Either way, DCI is a great place for young men and women to expand their talents and abilities, and to do what they thought might be impossible. However, care must, and should have been taken to make sure the past was not forgotten. These days, Drum, Wind, & Electronics Corps are nothing what they used to be. I didn't like the change to Bb, but I can live with that - it's still brass. Woodwinds and electronics are just a step too far. Next step is probably a merger with Bands of America. Then you can have two different championships: the school based Autumn championships and the summer touring championships. Opening up a BOA/DCI merger would mean some high schools could, in fact start competitive touring shows all summer long instead of just during their Autumn season. Whether that's a good idea or not is not my place. Conversely, it also opens up current and future drum corps being based out of schools, allowing for facility use without huge rental fees or whatnot. So, with all that, change = ok in small doses. I think all your points here are right on the mark, Brad T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 I agree with Brad as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcsnare93 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) AHHHHHHHH...a ffew interesting points here1 Woodwinds came before brass? interesting 2 We have to wait 150 years for more than a few changes or progression? 3 Do the people of yesteryear including myself all have to be dead for it to be ok to have CHANGE? A bit extreme? Being opposed to certain changes does not equate to being opposed to change in any form whatsoever. It just so happens that quite a few people are strongly opposed to most of the recent rule changes (especially those regarding instrumentation), as they feel it fundamentally changes drum corps as we know it -- more so than any previous changes. You'd probably encounter similar reactions if a proposal was brought forth to use an american regulation football for association football (soccer), a regulation softball for baseball and so on. All of those fundamentally change aspects of the sport itself, just as some feel the inclusion of woodwinds would do the same. And, to answer #2, no. But, do we really need to propose/approve new (major) rule changes every year? Edited May 18, 2010 by dcsnare93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCP-er Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) . Edited July 20, 2018 by DCP-er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 A bit extreme?Being opposed to certain changes does not equate to being opposed to change in any form whatsoever. It just so happens that quite a few people are strongly opposed to most of the recent rule changes (especially those regarding instrumentation), as they feel it fundamentally changes drum corps as we know it -- more so than any previous changes. You'd probably encounter similar reactions if a proposal was brought forth to use an american regulation football for association football (soccer), a regulation softball for baseball and so on. All of those fundamentally change aspects of the sport itself, just as some feel the inclusion of woodwinds would do the same. And, to answer #2, no. But, do we really need to propose/approve new (major) rule changes every year? Do we need rule changes every year...probally not Are you a director or instructor that it affects you or a spectator who just has to sit back and enjoy....or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 In all honesty, drum corps is obsolete to almost all of the world. Change is necessary for this dying activity to have a chance at surviving. I can't believe people on here are really looking up the definition for bugle, just to prove that its not technically "drum and bugle corps." Seriously? Get over yourself - no one cares. Drum Corps is 1000 % better than it was 20 years ago - the show experience is better, the instruments are better, and the corps perform on a much higher level. Many changes have taken place since 20 years ago, and they are all for the better. This activity has evolved, and will continue to evolve - get over it and stop #####ing. I could give a hoot about the definition of a Bugle or what key the horns are in. that being said British brass Band rules are very specific about the types of instruments they allow as well. And there would be a row if they allowed rotary valved instruments into their activity, for instance, or allowed variations in the instrumentation. And as for it being "better..." now than in 1990 I could parse that out and say in some ways yes, in others, perhaps not. And as always, if one simply thinks that only a high performance quality equals high effect or something more worth watching... there's a lot more to the equation. There are a few people who might argue the horn books aren't as good now as then for a lot of reasons, one perhaps being the physical demands placed on movment are so much higher now one can't play things that are as intricate as some of what was done and do the drill. And they could be right, too. And no, I disagree with all the changes being for the better. The changes from 1976, when I started watching, up to the ones where all the amps and such started working their way in, were fine. Those are changes that took place for nearly 30 years. And has been said, they were changes that didn't alter what the activity fundamentally is- or was-- an acoustically generated musical ensemble composed of brass and percussion instruments. They want to turn this into an extension of HS competitive bands on steroids, be my guest. If that's what the madding crowd wants to see, go for it. I see enough of that in the fall. As was said recently, it's just gonna drive more fans into DCA's lap. I for one can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 I could give a hoot about the definition of a Bugle or what key the horns are in. that being said British brass Band rules are very specific about the types of instruments they allow as well. And there would be a row if they allowed rotary valved instruments into their activity, for instance, or allowed variations in the instrumentation.And as for it being "better..." now than in 1990 I could parse that out and say in some ways yes, in others, perhaps not. And as always, if one simply thinks that only a high performance quality equals high effect or something more worth watching... there's a lot more to the equation. There are a few people who might argue the horn books aren't as good now as then for a lot of reasons, one perhaps being the physical demands placed on movment are so much higher now one can't play things that are as intricate as some of what was done and do the drill. And they could be right, too. And no, I disagree with all the changes being for the better. The changes from 1976, when I started watching, up to the ones where all the amps and such started working their way in, were fine. Those are changes that took place for nearly 30 years. And has been said, they were changes that didn't alter what the activity fundamentally is- or was-- an acoustically generated musical ensemble composed of brass and percussion instruments. They want to turn this into an extension of HS competitive bands on steroids, be my guest. If that's what the madding crowd wants to see, go for it. I see enough of that in the fall. As was said recently, it's just gonna drive more fans into DCA's lap. I for one can deal with that. DCA wont be far behind. It always does. Who do you think will go over to tech the DCA corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutnout Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 DCA wont be far behind. It always does. Who do you think will go over to tech the DCA corps sorry meant teach..and DCA isnt waht it was 20 or even 10 years ago its very young and with that will come lots of change in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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