fsubone Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 I will PM you as I have before. Understand that this is about balance. Yin and yang. Nothing more.I've watched outragious things go unchallenged, become normal and percieved as truth. It's not good. Thank you for your passion. The PM will be nicely appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Man am I glad you brought that up!! Holy Hannah from Savannah, Jeff. And where (using my best Church Lady voice and stare)..was that 25,000 at finals.....hmmmmm.....SATAN????? LA dude!!!!Then the next year we could barely get everyone in the stands at Bloomington...need I say more. Henny Penny ain't happenin', try another argument. You and others are really reaching with that second bolded thought. This might be wishful thinking on your part to prove some bizarre point, but mostly it's just conjecture. But you know Jeff, in retrospect this year was the year of avante garde, huh? Madison, BC, Cavies, CC, BK, Cadets, Boston, Phantom, et al....everyone going all Picasso on us! well no kidding Cali had huge attendance Sherlock......huge population out there, never had finals before...doesn't take a brain surgeon or upper primate to get that! yet I believe Bloomington did have decent attendance, tho people were ###### they weren't going to be in the echo dome and bailed....and those that did go did see one of the most exciting finals races of all time. and no, not everyone went avant garde this year...but...follow me here, this may require you to be logical....past abuses turn fans away. most fans that attenda finals have already made their decision and/or purchases. so, if continued boredom/irritation/whatever you call it with the product has affected their desire to go.....they're not going next year. boom, done. so for all of the great stuff out there ( IMO 10 of 12 shows) this past year, the damage from previous years has already taken affect. add in the economy...and you have a drop of roughly 10k fans in 4 years. I look at the Friends list in this year's programs...I see many founders long gone from my last year in the program 8 years ago....and I know they aren't dead. They got tired of going to see that which they didn't like. Sometimes all it took was an unpopluar champion. Face it, the winner is the face of the organization....and an unpopular champion can indeed be bad for business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photographer Jim Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 well....let's see. DCI has gone from 25000 fans at finals to maybe 15000 in 4 years. Sure the economy hurts, but you continue to see and hear more and more complaining about show design. do you think there is no correlation whatsoever?now granted, as i said the economy may have played some part. But in an activity crying for more and more money, seeing more and more fans walk away because of the product SHOULD be sending some kind of alarm message to the designers. I went to 5 shows this summer. none were SRO. OK, I'll jump in here for a second. When I briefly studied statistics one thing I learned was that correlation does not necessarily imply causation. Especially in cases where the numbers are unclear. Its one thing to go check attendance records and see if, in fact, DCI has lost 40% of their fans in the past four years. That can be done. [i think we might find out that that 40% figure, while true of Finals in Indy, may not hold true for local and regional shows to the same extent.] I doubt, however; that we could get any agreement as to how many fans have actually walked away from the activity because they have an issue with show design without some sort of reliable polling of the fan base, something that hasn't been done to my knowledge. At this point there is simply no way to determine if that correlation even exists, and certainly no way to determine if it has any statistical significance. But, assuming just for a minute that it actually does exist, and fans are in fact sending a message to show designers, I have to ask myself which designers are they speaking to. One? Two? All? I guess I just can't accept the viewpoint that the show designs of ONE corps (most mentioned target - BD), in a period of 4 years, can drive off 40% of the entire activity's fan base., abandoning, if you will, all of the remaining corps whose show design was just fine. I can't see ANY corps show ever being THAT bad. No, it seems only logical to me that it would have to be a case where nearly all of the show designs are considered to be without merit. The total package of drum corp would have to be seen as being without enough entertainment value to warrant interest. I sure can't buy that as a possibility either. I don't see any change or trend that has come about in the past four years that has so turned the activity on its ear as to be able to explain any fan exodus. Personally, I'd really like to know why any fan actually turns away from this activity, as I am sure DCI would. What I don't believe is that show design is going to turn out to be the significant factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 well, to a lot of long time fans, current design in general is not pleasing to many fans. I'm not talking guys from the 60's, I'm talking fans of the 90's. shows at a local level may be doing well, tho reports are not all are. I know one local theater for quarters that used to fill 2 rooms that was down to one this year. but when you see a repeated pattern of show design turning off fans, for many years, with the chorus getting a little louder every year, there is a message being sent. people can poo-poo it all they want, callt hem uneducated, haters, whatever...it's out there, and it's real. if you don't believe me, go listen to Cesario again in the Januals clips on DCI.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 ummm. I won't go to finals until it leaves Indy. Show entertainment value is a secondary concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 GO BD! Even though many try to marginalize people who DARE enjoy what you put out, it's nice to see you keep going. Your members and staff are simply extraordinary. Congrats on the amazing win...we'll see if other corps can match your achievement in the coming years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I doubt, however; that we could get any agreement as to how many fans have actually walked away from the activity because they have an issue with show design without some sort of reliable polling of the fan base, something that hasn't been done to my knowledge. At this point there is simply no way to determine if that correlation even exists, and certainly no way to determine if it has any statistical significance. For many years up until a handful of years ago.....six friends of mine and I use to attended DCI shows together. Out of the seven of us....I am the only one still attending DCI shows. Some attend an occasional DCA show. Why did they stop attending DCI shows? The music the corps are presenting and the way they are presenting doesn't entertain/excite them anymore. A couple hung in for a while longer but bailed when narration and amps were allowed. In speaking with other drum corps fans (Most of the time at DCA and alumni shows) just about all of them don't bother with DCI anymore because of the music the corps play and the way the corps choose to play it.......(And no....they are not all grey haired old men...not by a long shot) Personally, I'd really like to know why any fan actually turns away from this activity, as I am sure DCI would. What I don't believe is that show design is going to turn out to be the significant factor. In my experience......hundreds of former DCI fans.......are former DCI fans because of the music the corps play and the way the corps choose to play it.... I am just one person....and I can account for a couple of hundred....easy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainWreck Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I haven't been to a show in 3 years. Just doesn't get me excited anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 if you don't believe me, go listen to Cesario again in the Januals clips on DCI.org I don't recall a time up until this season....where DCI was so interested in what the fans are thinking. Why are we not growing the fanbase.....why do fans stop going to shows........the round table discussions at some of the regional events so DCI can engage and get a feel for what DCI fans thoughts and concerns are. All new stuff..... Something is definitely not looking great in the eyes of the top folks running DCI...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 This thread... Arguing about BD 2010 is so last season, and I am pretty sure this thread was intended to provoke discussion about the future. No matter how we felt about 2010, I think we can all agree to feeling a bit tired of talking about it, yes? Yes. Agree? Agree. GREAT. So then. BD in the future... I don't know if this would be more engaging, frustrating, or whatever the OP's categories were, but I certainly think it'd be thematically consistent for BD to do a Thelonious Monk show. Something like... BD 2011: Brilliant Corners. Another excuse to do some funky, freaky, potentially uncomfortable shtuff. I'd dig it. A Mingus show would also be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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