Marvelous Minneapolis

[fsubone]

I wouldn't go that far. SCV was 5th in most subcaptions and higher in a couple here or there. Yes, they were 6th in brass, but that is just part of the story. No one can deny that percussion helped, I am just saying that it isn't like Bluecoats percussion score hurt their chances at beating Vanguard tonight. It is pretty good, as well.

I understand that, but it created a big margin. The two corps were only .35 apart, which is not that big of a margin. And when there is a .7 spread in percussion, you can see exactly where the spread comes from. I hope SCV stays ahead, I'm a huge fan, but it would have been very close if SCV's percussion hadn't won tonight. They traded sub-captions in GE, visual went SCV's way, while Bluecoats took music. SCV got dumped in Music Analysis, so that brought things a little closer.

[Tone Quality Matters]

Basically i feel that a single member should not be able to outplay a 20 member contra line (or an 80-member brass line). No matter how much some people like the sound.

Yes indeed. I agree. Balance is key. Tone Quality Matters (Hence my screen name) :-)

[RockyGranite]

Thunderous goo is all the bass that comes out of the pits amps. ITs everything you dont want to hear. It is used too play out the bottom sound of a corps which most believe is not needed.

I think the show would be better without random technoish sounds.

1. Synth and show memorability aren't really important at all. Execution at this point in the year only holds so much weight. It really depends on the caption we're talking about.

Example: GE Music - is going to look at how the entire musical production is effective. Not any particular section .. but there is also caption bleed. This judge has to take into account the show concept, music being played .. it's execution and the visual design of the show, staging etc. GE Captions are probably the worst to figure out and carry way too much weight in DCI.

Example 2: Music Ensemble - is going to look at how well the drums play together with each other and the pit, how well the brass play together and with the percussion. It's not looking at how a synth part fits in .. if it's effective or overused or whatever. They just want the corps to play together.

Example 3: Brass: Tone Quality, Sonority of sound, articulation, playing technique, breathing fundamentals, approach to the instrument, are ppl sticking out (balance and blend) ... those sorts of things.

On your second question .... whether we get it or not has nothing to do with scoring. However, these new judging sheets this year are supposed to bridge that gab a lil bit. Just remember, as you get more experience (depending on the time you put into learning and grasping the different concepts, techniques and vocabulary the designers are using) the more you'll come to understand what is being scored well and why. This isn't a system that scores based on mistakes. It's scores more on recovery and achievement. In other words, you get credit for WHAT you're doing in the GE Captions.. and HOW you're doing it in the other captions.

Confused? Dont' sweat it ... it takes years and a lot of love to get it. That doesn't mean that you'll agree with what the judges award ... but at least you might come to understand where they're coming from and why.

Hope this helps.

My thanks to you both.

You've given me valuable information to keep in mind when I see my next show.

[MikeD]

LOL Mike! Now you are defending GOO???? Go back and watch Troopers opening statement and... HONESTLY... tell me that they sound "great" with the added lower bass.

Note I said in a subsequent post....

...good balance being necessary applies to every voice in the show...inc low end synths.

Every voice needs to be balanced with the rest of the ensemble for the sound to realize its maximum potential.

[fatbrassboy]

What's SUTA mean?

You'd have to be an alum or current member to know. Sorry. People can make their guesses, but probably won't get it right.

[BOSMarcher]

Heaven forbid the Cavaliers are actually getting "better". I really hope you weren't expecting them to progress at the same rate as Madison. Madison has YET to take their game up a notch. Hence why they're not in the top 8.

If there was a year where slotting wasn't happening, it'd be THIS year.

I made a comment in another thread that made the point that the Cavaliers were able to recruit this winter higher caliber people because of their past success. The same could be said for BD, Cadets and Crown. Madison was 10th place and their show is good, but the Cavaliers have members that are at a higher talent level (in general). The question is whether or not Madison's kids can get the job done and work harder and smarter than Cavies. It will be tough, but it is not impossible. They obviously have the staff, but the Cavies are going to continue to get cleaner from this point on, so Madison will have a bit of an uphill climb.

With that being said, it is possible that their relative performance times were a factor and next week's regional will be more telling of where everyone is.

[supersop]

Last night in Lisle my faith was restored in the activity that I used to love so much. Tonight I completely lost that faith. There wasn't a person at Lisle, including the Cavie fans sitting near me who thought they were even in the same league as Madison. Scouts were great. In Minnesota the Scouts get screwed because they went on so early, & the Cavaliers are overscored because they went on late. Judges cant even get their slotting right. Unless the Cavies improved greatly & the Scouts were really bad, the Cavies should be at least 2 points behind the Scouts. Cavies hornline is dirty as heck & the show...well lets just say that even the Cavie alumns & fans weren't real thrilled with the show in Lisle & they got the least amount of applause & crowd reaction besides Pioneer. Did you know that "in the future, everyone will be world famous for 15 minutes?" If you didn't, not to worry...the Cavies big voice guy narrator will tell you this about 10 times..

And then there is the Blue Devils. I used to love this corps. Now I cant stand them. I have no idea what the crap is that they are playing. It is tough on the ears. I don't care how clean it is, the content is brutal. Crown & Garfield have the 2 best shows on the field.

I had it like this:

1. Crown

2. Garfield

3. Phantom

4. Blue Devils

5. SCV

6. Bluecoats

7. Madison

8. Spirit

9. Boston

10. Cavies

11. Blue Knights

12. Crossmen

As a proud Scout alum .... all I can say is .. stuff happens. I think everyone in MadNation expected this to be a potential outcome TONIGHT. That won't last long. I'm not sure Crossmen are strong enough yet to take out BStars .. but it could happen by finals. They have a great show ..... but BStars have cleaned considerably. Heck, after the theatre show at the beginning of the year I had BStars down and out of the top 12 by a wide margin... but they're doing their job. If Crossmen dig in and clean like the Stars have .. they have a shot to make the night show for sure.... (they do need some rewrites in order to achieve this). I think Spirit will hold in that 8-10 range depending on how they keep developing the show.

It's hard for us older generation sometimes to live with execution not being king at ANY point of the season .. especially now. But something has to be said for a better design getting rewarded over a cleaner show at this point. The better design might be dirtier ... but it has more potential to grow. This is where Spirit might be getting bumped by a couple of corps right now. Same for Crossmen.

Flipside .. BD executes at such a high level that they often get credit for design that can seem unwarranted. Same can be said for other corps as well. I look at PR and wonder why they didn't beat Cadets tonight .. still scratching my head a bit but I get that Cadets have a stronger total design. PR is a bit light in the visual demand area but are wicked clean.

See where I'm going with all of that? It's a double edged sword. Tougher doesn't always mean better .. Cleaner doesn't always mean better and vice versa.

[MotorCityMusician]

My thanks to you both.

You've given me valuable information to keep in mind when I see my next show.

Glad to share my opinion with someone thats interested

[FlamMan]

Of course...good balance being necessary applies to every voice in the show...inc low end synths.

You're not the same Mike Davis who was the Drum judge tonight are you? If so, how in the world can you possibly score BK ahead of Scouts? Good lord.

[MotorCityMusician]

As a proud Scout alum .... all I can say is .. stuff happens. I think everyone in MadNation expected this to be a potential outcome TONIGHT. That won't last long. I'm not sure Crossmen are strong enough yet to take out BStars .. but it could happen by finals. They have a great show ..... but BStars have cleaned considerably. Heck, after the theatre show at the beginning of the year I had BStars down and out of the top 12 by a wide margin... but they're doing their job. If Crossmen dig in and clean like the Stars have .. they have a shot to make the night show for sure.... (they do need some rewrites in order to achieve this). I think Spirit will hold in that 8-10 range depending on how they keep developing the show.

It's hard for us older generation sometimes to live with execution not being king at ANY point of the season .. especially now. But something has to be said for a better design getting rewarded over a cleaner show at this point. The better design might be dirtier ... but it has more potential to grow. This is where Spirit might be getting bumped by a couple of corps right now. Same for Crossmen.

Flipside .. BD executes at such a high level that they often get credit for design that can seem unwarranted. Same can be said for other corps as well. I look at PR and wonder why they didn't beat Cadets tonight .. still scratching my head a bit but I get that Cadets have a stronger total design. PR is a bit light in the visual demand area but are wicked clean.

See where I'm going with all of that? It's a double edged sword. Tougher doesn't always mean better .. Cleaner doesn't always mean better and vice versa.

Look at percussion scores.