whitedawn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Choreography is harder than marching. There, I said it. Maybe, but it's WAY less effective in this medium, IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I think it's all about the context. If it's presented as a one-off exhibition, akin to an alumni corps performance, it would be fine. It wouldn't be judged, but the audience would likely enjoy it. If it's a competitive corps going retro, they'll get destroyed by today's judging, and likely ravaged by the audience. I'd venture to guess they'd have a difficult time retaining members, as today's kids would laugh a designer out of the room, let alone want to perform that stuff. Even Surf's pseudo-retro Bridgemen tribute was designed differently than the original Bridgemen stuff. If they'd copied the original it would have been a complete disaster. Thanks! Any thoughts on why it worked for a movie with "judges", as it were, and fans, to adopt a 1927 style but wouldn't work for corps to adopt a 1972 style? Maybe because color vs. black-and-white and sound vs. silent aren't necessarily better but only different? Is that true of all changes to DCI over 40 years, I wonder? People have repeatedly said on these forums that just because new elements are available to corps doesn't mean they are required, and that more options only leads to more variety. But in practice, almost no group opts for even one of the "retro" variations I list. Only a few exceptions come to mind: amplification and synthesizers, at least, though overwhelmingly prevalent, seem not to be an absolute requirement for success (if not total success): Spartans earned 4th place and a score of 91 in Open Class without a synthesizer (or even any pit amplification that I noticed -- is that right?) and Boston is going to finish no lower than 9th in World Class without a synthesizer (again, as far as I can see -- if they've got one, they're hiding it well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Thanks! Any thoughts on why it worked for a movie with "judges", as it were, and fans, to adopt a 1927 style but wouldn't work for corps to adopt a 1972 style? Maybe because color vs. black-and-white and sound vs. silent aren't necessarily better but only different? Is that true of all changes to DCI over 40 years, I wonder? People have repeatedly said on these forums that just because new elements are available to corps doesn't mean they are required, and that more options only leads to more variety. But in practice, almost no group opts for even one of the "retro" variations I list. Only a few exceptions come to mind: amplification and synthesizers, at least, though overwhelmingly prevalent, seem not to be an absolute requirement for success (if not total success): Spartans earned 4th place and a score of 91 in Open Class without a synthesizer (or even any pit amplification that I noticed -- is that right?) and Boston is going to finish no lower than 9th in World Class without a synthesizer (again, as far as I can see -- if they've got one, they're hiding it well). You do realize that the American Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (the organization that awards the Academy Awards) consists of a bunch of old white men that have been a part of the industry for a long time, don't you? It shouldn't be surprising that they awarded something that appealed so strongly to their sense of nostalgia. If all the judges in DCI today were drum corps participants in the 60s and 70s, I imagine they would be fond of a retro-style show too. Also note that if all contemporary movies were like The Artist (silent films), people would stop going to movies in today's world. Celebrating nostalgia can be heart-warming, but abandoning the progress that has been made over the years in favor of a return to the past is a guaranteed trip to the dust bin of history for DCI. You also have to recognize that The Artist was very well directed, acted, and produced. It didn't win only because it appealed to the nostalgia of The Academy (though the nostalgia was definitely a factor). It won because it was a GOOD movie that appealed to the nostalgia of The Academy. If a corps does a GOOD job of designing and executing a show that appeals to the nostalgia of drum corps, I'm sure the judges will be more than happy to reward them. Edited August 9, 2012 by jasgre2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak27 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I would rather watch a horn line dance across the field than march. Dance looks better than straight marching. It depends... Are they playing? Is the horn line 'synchronized' in their dance choreography or are they all 'reaching to the stars, emotionally' at different times as they move from one set to the next? It's one thing to have them do some type of jazz-sashay and be 'in step' and quite another to have them doing the move 'out of step'...for many of us, all too often it's the latter and it doesn't look good, even if the choreography fits the music/drill, but the corps are compelled to put so much of it in b/c of the judging system. For example, the chorus dancers in a ballet more often than not are synchronized in their movements while still being beautiful, graceful, etc., so let's get the choreography 'in sync' and meld these disparate aspects of the visual portion of a show -- let's drop the "posing for posing sake" and only do it when it makes sense (enhance the music, visual set, etc.)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKaye Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 the only flaw in your logic is that if you actually watch the corps (and I mean get over the fact that they have voice, and props, and occasionally have members doing something different) you will notice that the corps members are marching alot and very well. Everyone seems to be honing in on the things they don't like and missing the fact that underneath all of the stuff the drill is there and the marching is being done well. I would put their marching technique and cleanliness up against any other corps in the top 12 and hands down BD is executing their drill and marching technique better than all of them.and for those complaining that BD only runs around in scatter drills - watch the show - they actually run less in their show then Crown does in theirs. but because BD has the horses and the Voice overs everyone seems to focus on the small amount of non marching they do, but Crown dances, runs, lies down, and all kinds of other stuff much more than BD and no one seems to mind that. This ^^^^ ----I believe, and agree with 100%. And, to quote someone else: "For one, execution is a big part of the sheets, and lets face it: Jersey Surf isn't coming near the level of execution as Blue Devils are." I love the Jersey Surf show. I enjoyed many others over two nites at DCI East, my only live viewing of WC corps this year. One can see from my signature, I'm a relic, but I also love the Blue Devils show. On Friday nite in Allentown I watched in amazement from Section R, upper deck, 50 yard line. The Devils were outstanding, without a weakness in any area. As much as I also enjoyed Crown's show, and as well as they performed, there were some visual flaws. Crown's brass had a slight edge. BD were I thought, just a notch above CC in every other facet, especially CG & percussion, where that night anyway, I thought it was, BC, BD, followed by CC. In my opinion, ( and I believe all DCP posts should be read with this preface ) unless BD absolutely falls flat on their collective faces on Saturday, they are worthy and most deserving of a 15th DCI Championship. I wish I could see them live one more time. Best wishes to all the competitors in Indy. Drum Corps !......It's all good, no matter the era. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) The quoted statement above .......... I MIND! Crown does some incredible stuff in their show .. but the entire presentation of the full Fanfare bugs the heck out of me. They lay down, thrust their hips, roll over, you name it .... and it's not all that effective. Marching proper would have served them much better for that 2 minute chunk of the show. The storyline development .. the cube intro lasts forever .... I truly believe this section of the show is hurting the guard the most ... and the Visual GE in that segment is very minimal. As for the rest of the show .. I love the Choreography they do .. the mini hops ... even the running. One huge thing that hurts Crown is their tendency to do so much end zone facing marching. It really shows off their inconsistent upper body and marching technique. Just facing front or back (ala SCV and BD) would gain them mega-points. I've already beaten the BD horse to death .. so I'll leave that alone. Edited August 9, 2012 by supersop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You do realize that the American Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (the organization that awards the Academy Awards) consists of a bunch of old white men that have been a part of the industry for a long time, don't you? It shouldn't be surprising that they awarded something that appealed so strongly to their sense of nostalgia. If all the judges in DCI today were drum corps participants in the 60s and 70s, I imagine they would be fond of a retro-style show too. Although the AMPAS membership skews older (the "white" and the "men", however true or not, being irrelevant to this discussion), very few AMPAS members are old enough even to remember watching silent films, much less working in them! That was 80+ years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANDRUMMER Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 IMHO the dancing,theatrics singing etc have taken the place of the crisp marching style of a bygone era. The Colour Pres. was always one of my favourite parts of the show. Hearing the patriotic music as the Corps came towards you with the National Flag carried proudly while the other flags were dipped in a solemn reverent salute was a sight to behold. Witness this part of history at any Alumni show today and you will understand what I am speaking of. There s a Corps very active today doing modern drill, playing a combination of old and new music some of it classical and they ALWAYS get a standing O, They don't roll on the ground dance or prance use props wear sequined uniforms etc but put on a very entertaining show that brings the crowd to its feet each time they perform. Their name ? Oh yeah The United States MARINE Drum and Bugle Corps!!! And by the way they STILL use 2 valve G bugles! They continue to show what can be done without all the gimmicks glitz schmaltz etc. Next year they celebrate 80 years.Not too any Corps can boast that length of operation! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Nice THILP you found (Thread I'd Like to Post on). How many talented young brass players, percussionists, and dancers are passionate about the idea of walking in step all summer? (Hint: It's the roundest number of all. Or close to it). That's most of the reason for the shift IMO. There's still room for tradition for those who want it, but at the top they're inventing a new performing art in which the musicians also do choreography, and they're taking that as far as it can go. Edited October 6, 2013 by Pete Freedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Choreography is harder than marching. There, I said it. But it's not nearly as effective - unless the desired effect is to #### me off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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