What does BDs’ victory really mean?

[luv4corps]

Regiment should just continue to be Regiment. I could do without the seemingly recurring "death" themes, at least for a year or two. But they do what they do very well, especially musically.

While 2008 was clearly their best "effect" effort, 2012 came pretty close, and was far and away the best musical performance of the last five or six years, and easily my favorite since 2003. Nessun Dorma, for me, transcended drum corps. It was brilliant.

Still the only show that brings me to tears EVERY time I watch it on FN... and it's Nessun Dorma that does it.

[bchorn]

And for the last 20ish years, they execute REALLY well. People are putting a lot of stock in BD's show designs (which are effective and hit all the high points on the sheets), but BD also executes better than most in all captions.

That's true: their shows seem to get plenty of reaction from everyone in the activity: more so than most corps.

I'm SO OK with not every corps pandering to the lowest common denominator or mass broad appeal. Not every movie needs to be a mindless, thoughtless blockbuster summer movie (and nor does every movie have to be a groundbreaking, thought-provoking masterpiece like Citizen Kane, or 8 1/2 or something). I LOVE that Finals night brings a pretty wide spectrum of show designs: you literally had a 'tribute' to dadaism followed by the Uncommon man followed by an opera followed by Christmas tunes! I love that all four of those shows are wildly different, and would hate for every corps to design the same styles.

No one is asking all corps to play the exact same style. Drum corps have their own styles just like movies have genres like drama, comedy, sci-fi, or fantasy. The Blue Devils have done crowd pleasing championship entertaining shows in the past (2003 for example) so I know they know how to do it. They simply don't care about pleasing the crowds anymore.

[fsubone]

Lol that Borg marched SCV. There is respect between the two teams, but NO love.

Well, a little love, but mostly very fierce rivalry. Most people don't get it, but they're ones who either weren't taught right while marching, or were outside of those two corps. I still don't know how people cross-over, the rivalry would be way too much for me to have ever done that.

[fsubone]

And for the last 20ish years, they execute REALLY well. People are putting a lot of stock in BD's show designs (which are effective and hit all the high points on the sheets), but BD also executes better than most in all captions.

That's true: their shows seem to get plenty of reaction from everyone in the activity: more so than most corps.

I'm SO OK with not every corps pandering to the lowest common denominator or mass broad appeal. Not every movie needs to be a mindless, thoughtless blockbuster summer movie (and nor does every movie have to be a groundbreaking, thought-provoking masterpiece like Citizen Kane, or 8 1/2 or something). I LOVE that Finals night brings a pretty wide spectrum of show designs: you literally had a 'tribute' to dadaism followed by the Uncommon man followed by an opera followed by Christmas tunes! I love that all four of those shows are wildly different, and would hate for every corps to design the same styles.

Exactly. If you're not executing well, no one will care how well designed your shows are. Sometimes, we see corps fall into that trap of designing a great show, but not executing it to the full potential, and they don't max it out, (see Crown 2010 for example). BD executes better than almost every other corps, because they design a show that the members can attain. If you write over your members' heads, you're going to be starting behind everyone else, and always playing catch up of trying to clean your too difficult show. But if you design a show below their level, the members hate the experience, and you peak really early and slide backwards into Finals.

That is the best thing about DCI. While I wish some corps would aim more for audience enjoyment and big ovations, the difference in style is what makes DCI so great. You can go to a regional and see 20~ completely different shows, with completely different styles. Everyone will have something that they can watch and enjoy, even if they don't enjoy everyone. There is always a show for every fan in the stands. I know people who can't stand Phantom 2008, the same way I know people who can't stand SCV 1989 or BD 2010. But they had other shows that they loved, and watch over and over again. You can't appeal to everyone, but everyone can find something they enjoy.

[supersop]

Exactly. If you're not executing well, no one will care how well designed your shows are. Sometimes, we see corps fall into that trap of designing a great show, but not executing it to the full potential, and they don't max it out, (see Crown 2010 for example). BD executes better than almost every other corps, because they design a show that the members can attain. If you write over your members' heads, you're going to be starting behind everyone else, and always playing catch up of trying to clean your too difficult show. But if you design a show below their level, the members hate the experience, and you peak really early and slide backwards into Finals.

That is the best thing about DCI. While I wish some corps would aim more for audience enjoyment and big ovations, the difference in style is what makes DCI so great. You can go to a regional and see 20~ completely different shows, with completely different styles. Everyone will have something that they can watch and enjoy, even if they don't enjoy everyone. There is always a show for every fan in the stands. I know people who can't stand Phantom 2008, the same way I know people who can't stand SCV 1989 or BD 2010. But they had other shows that they loved, and watch over and over again. You can't appeal to everyone, but everyone can find something they enjoy.

And the problem with only writing a show that is easily attained is that you're not teaching your members to be challenged beyond their limits. That's why I don't mind a bit of dirt for the sake of "going for it".

As a writer and teacher myself .. I always want to challenge my students. ALWAYS! If they aren't being challenged then they aren't growing.

If I just wrote something that they could perfect and never ask more of them, they begin to learn that playing the game is the only key to success. Which is a HORRIBLE lesson to be teaching.

Sadly, with DCI being judged the way that it is (from top to bottom) ... there is no consistency in giving higher scores to corps that have easily achievable shows.

Conversely, there is little consistency in giving credit to corps that challenge their members to go beyond what would normally be expected of the human body both musically and visually.

In the end .. the only consistency we have is that it's inconsistent.

[Catan]

Sadly, with DCI being judged the way that it is (from top to bottom) ... there is no consistency in giving higher scores to corps that have easily achievable shows.

Conversely, there is little consistency in giving credit to corps that challenge their members to go beyond what would normally be expected of the human body both musically and visually.

In the end .. the only consistency we have is that it's inconsistent.

This is very true. The judges can't seem to make up their minds. Just look at finals this year. At the top, two cleaner (and arguably easier, although I DO NOT see it that way) shows beat their competitors (BD over Crown and Phantom over Cadets).

But further down in finals, we had a very difficult show with lots of dirt (BK) beat a squeaky clean Spirit.

Just last year, a cleaner BD lost to a (slightly) dirtier Cadets, while a pretty darn clean Crown seemed to peak mid-season and fall to 4th.

[perc2100]

The Blue Devils have done crowd pleasing championship entertaining shows in the past (2003 for example) so I know they know how to do it. They simply don't care about pleasing the crowds anymore.

I'm going to be blunt:

perhaps Blue Devils don't care about please SIMPLISTIC, simple-minded, lowest-common-denominator, Über-broad tasted fans. They design shows that elicit more of an emotion than "stand up and clap because we're loud." They produce shows that stimulate the brain one way or the other. They marry high-concept with marching/playing/spinning on a football field.

And there's nothing wrong with that. For all of the folks who love the nostalgia in junior drum corps, you have corps like Jersey Surf or Cadets 2012, or Madison Scouts lately. For those who want lighter, 'fun' type of show designs, you have Spirit, arguably Cavaliers last few years, or Madison this year. For fans who want a little bit of thought-provoking with your drum corps, you have Cadets 2011, or Crown 2012, or Phantom Regiment, or Crossmen 2012. Blue Devils do their own thing (as do Cadets and Cavaliers on occasion), and there's absolutely nothing wrong with their show designs not being "easy sells" for the audience. If you want an 'easy sell' there are plenty of corps who seem to design their shows that way.

Also, as it's been mentioned before, I suspect that Blue Devils show designs please PLENTY of crowds (I also suspect that you might be correct and BD's design staff wouldn't care about not pleasing simple minded fans)

[perc2100]

This is very true. The judges can't seem to make up their minds. Just look at finals this year. At the top, two cleaner (and arguably easier, although I DO NOT see it that way) shows beat their competitors (BD over Crown and Phantom over Cadets).

But further down in finals, we had a very difficult show with lots of dirt (BK) beat a squeaky clean Spirit.

Just last year, a cleaner BD lost to a (slightly) dirtier Cadets, while a pretty darn clean Crown seemed to peak mid-season and fall to 4th.

I think the difficulty in analyzing/comprehending total results occurs when we look at an over-all score and try to break it down by "does cleaner beat more effective?" Remember that DCI is an activity that is judged by sub-captions. If two corps are comparable in talent it's almost certain that the more effective show will win out. Logically, if we're only talking about a few tenths here or there in performance captions (especially when, say, Crown's brass is slightly better than Blue Devils, but Blue Devil's percussion is significantly better than Crown), the effect sheets will win the show.

No judge is adjudicating the over-all show, and is instead focusing on one caption: a cleaner BD won over a more difficult Crown because BD had zero weaknesses and Crown had a sub-par percussion program and couldn't quite clean their vis well enough. Last year Blue Devil's music effect was their weakness (obviously Cadets were all about Effect last year, placing 2nd in Vis. and tying for 1st in Music - their 3rd place percussion was a wash because of BD's 3rd place brass with Cadets' music ensemble 'saving' the caption)

[Jeff Ream]

I'm going to be blunt:

perhaps Blue Devils don't care about please SIMPLISTIC, simple-minded, lowest-common-denominator, Über-broad tasted fans. They design shows that elicit more of an emotion than "stand up and clap because we're loud." They produce shows that stimulate the brain one way or the other. They marry high-concept with marching/playing/spinning on a football field.

And there's nothing wrong with that. For all of the folks who love the nostalgia in junior drum corps, you have corps like Jersey Surf or Cadets 2012, or Madison Scouts lately. For those who want lighter, 'fun' type of show designs, you have Spirit, arguably Cavaliers last few years, or Madison this year. For fans who want a little bit of thought-provoking with your drum corps, you have Cadets 2011, or Crown 2012, or Phantom Regiment, or Crossmen 2012. Blue Devils do their own thing (as do Cadets and Cavaliers on occasion), and there's absolutely nothing wrong with their show designs not being "easy sells" for the audience. If you want an 'easy sell' there are plenty of corps who seem to design their shows that way.

Also, as it's been mentioned before, I suspect that Blue Devils show designs please PLENTY of crowds (I also suspect that you might be correct and BD's design staff wouldn't care about not pleasing simple minded fans)

then BD supporters should not get their thongs in a bunch when those simple minded idiots as you call them ##### that the shows are boring.

Remember it takes all kinds of fans to keep the activity alive and thriving. if you #### too many off, they walk. genius business strategy no?

[JonW]

No average joe's in his country club, eh?

Heh, s'ok - I can spend my money elsewhere.