charlie1223 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) About the "silence" or lack of audio due to cutting the sound bites.. Part of the problem is that obviously all sound, acoustic and electronic is being captured from the SAME microphones. DCI has struggled where to put the microphones so that you don't get a booming sub woofer from the field while still capturing the louder sounds of the brass and drumline behind it. For me sometimes the efforts to put the microphones behind the speakers actually diminishes alot of the amplified and electronic sounds so they are not presented (balance wise) as they are in the live venue. The best way to fix this may be to record the electronic and amplified sounds (the sounds coming from the speakers) through a digital channel and not from a microphone. Connect a wire that records the sounds coming from the sound board/speakers without physically recording the sound through a microphone. Then you have the acoustic and electronic sounds on different tracks and they can be balanced in post production so that what we hear in the stadium can be replicated on the disc. Not only will the sound for the amplified elements be more authentic, and natural, and more balanced, but elements from the electronic track can even be cut without affecting the "acoustic" track. Obviously there might be some bleed over but if microphones don't need to worry about recording their sound from microphones they can position them to focus more directly on the brass and drum line. Also, you would need corps sound engineers to help balance the two tracks but the product would be higher quality and more balanced and may completely rid the issue of some synthesized chords sounding unbalanced on dvds. Just a thought. I'm not a sound engineer but hopefully you get what I mean. Edited October 6, 2012 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Kind of ironic if you think about it really. Were gonna loose Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 About the "silence" or lack of audio due to cutting the sound bites.. Part of the problem is that obviously all sound, acoustic and electronic is being captured from the SAME microphones. DCI has struggled where to put the microphones so that you don't get a booming sub woofer from the field while still capturing the louder sounds of the brass and drumline behind it. For me sometimes the efforts to put the microphones behind the speakers actually diminishes alot of the amplified and electronic sounds so they are not presented (balance wise) as they are in the live venue. The best way to fix this may be to record the electronic and amplified sounds (the sounds coming from the speakers) through a digital channel and not from a microphone. Connect a wire that records the sounds coming from the sound board/speakers without physically recording the sound through a microphone. Then you have the acoustic and electronic sounds on different tracks and they can be balanced in post production so that what we hear in the stadium can be replicated on the disc. Not only will the sound for the amplified elements be more authentic, and natural, and more balanced, but elements from the electronic track can even be cut without affecting the "acoustic" track. Obviously there might be some bleed over but if microphones don't need to worry about recording their sound from microphones they can position them to focus more directly on the brass and drum line. Also, you would need corps sound engineers to help balance the two tracks but the product would be higher quality and more balanced and may completely rid the issue of some synthesized chords sounding unbalanced on dvds. Just a thought. I'm not a sound engineer but hopefully you get what I mean. I think I follow you. You are suggesting that the corps sound board be hardwired to the recording mix. That sounds like an interesting idea that corps might want to experiment with for their own recordings. However, that would not be appropriate for recordings of competitive performances. In my opinion, drum corps contest recordings should capture sounds as accurately as possible, as they are presented in the live venue (like you say in your first paragraph). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combia1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think I follow you. You are suggesting that the corps sound board be hardwired to the recording mix. That sounds like an interesting idea that corps might want to experiment with for their own recordings. However, that would not be appropriate for recordings of competitive performances. In my opinion, drum corps contest recordings should capture sounds as accurately as possible, as they are presented in the live venue (like you say in your first paragraph). I think WGI does this. They take an audio mix directly from the sound audio control booth and add that to the video mix. The downside is you miss a lot of the crowd reaction (clappung, screaming, yelling, etc.) but even that is getting better. They record and audio track "live" in the arena and mix in the crowd reaction where appropriate. Like I said earlier, maybe DCI should designate Friday as "no voice overs and no samples just in case there are copyright and synch license issue" night and have the corps perform without all of that stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think I follow you. You are suggesting that the corps sound board be hardwired to the recording mix. That sounds like an interesting idea that corps might want to experiment with for their own recordings. However, that would not be appropriate for recordings of competitive performances. In my opinion, drum corps contest recordings should capture sounds as accurately as possible, as they are presented in the live venue (like you say in your first paragraph). Well I would argue that if the microphones are placed behind the pit speakers then that isn't accurate to what the audience hears infront of the pit speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) I think WGI does this. They take an audio mix directly from the sound audio control booth and add that to the video mix. The downside is you miss a lot of the crowd reaction (clappung, screaming, yelling, etc.) but even that is getting better. They record and audio track "live" in the arena and mix in the crowd reaction where appropriate. Like I said earlier, maybe DCI should designate Friday as "no voice overs and no samples just in case there are copyright and synch license issue" night and have the corps perform without all of that stuff. What WGI does is great then. Why not have a microphone pointing to the audience to record their reaction and then add in whenever needed. I don't think the DVD should be just a complete reflection of what it sounded like finals night. I think make post production inhancements and making show enjoyable and presentable for a non-live audience would be better. Also I watched Cavaliers show without samples and voice overs at MetLife and the show fell so flat it was painful to watch. You can't do that with shows nowadays without severly effecting the overall performance. Edited October 8, 2012 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Like I said earlier, maybe DCI should designate Friday as "no voice overs and no samples just in case there are copyright and synch license issue" night and have the corps perform without all of that stuff. Show are designed to include those elements, so I doubt they'd want to compete without them. They aren't just "stuff" to those who create the shows. Plus, synch license issues are not always these little moments, as has been shown with others, the 2011 Scouts ESOM being a prime example, or the earlier Kiwanis Kavaliers entire Beatle's SHOW being axed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynthLine09 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 About the "silence" or lack of audio due to cutting the sound bites.. Part of the problem is that obviously all sound, acoustic and electronic is being captured from the SAME microphones. DCI has struggled where to put the microphones so that you don't get a booming sub woofer from the field while still capturing the louder sounds of the brass and drumline behind it. For me sometimes the efforts to put the microphones behind the speakers actually diminishes alot of the amplified and electronic sounds so they are not presented (balance wise) as they are in the live venue. The best way to fix this may be to record the electronic and amplified sounds (the sounds coming from the speakers) through a digital channel and not from a microphone. Connect a wire that records the sounds coming from the sound board/speakers without physically recording the sound through a microphone. Then you have the acoustic and electronic sounds on different tracks and they can be balanced in post production so that what we hear in the stadium can be replicated on the disc. Not only will the sound for the amplified elements be more authentic, and natural, and more balanced, but elements from the electronic track can even be cut without affecting the "acoustic" track. Obviously there might be some bleed over but if microphones don't need to worry about recording their sound from microphones they can position them to focus more directly on the brass and drum line. Also, you would need corps sound engineers to help balance the two tracks but the product would be higher quality and more balanced and may completely rid the issue of some synthesized chords sounding unbalanced on dvds. Just a thought. I'm not a sound engineer but hopefully you get what I mean. Actually, for the past two years DCI has put a dynamic mic about a foot away from each corps speaker, thus capturing the sound from the speakers pretty much independently from the rest of the corps. Sennhesier Md 421's to be exact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Actually, for the past two years DCI has put a dynamic mic about a foot away from each corps speaker, thus capturing the sound from the speakers pretty much independently from the rest of the corps. Sennhesier Md 421's to be exact. Really!? I've never seen this and the sound on the DVD makes me think otherwise. I'm really surprised by this.... Can anyone else verify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I know it's been talked about before. I'm pretty sure they mic the #### out of everything. Even an audience mic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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