camel lips Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Tell that to Wayne Downey, Jack Meehan, Robert Smith, Frank Williams, Jim Prime, John Meehan, the staff at Caroline Crown, etc, etc... You get two lines pushing the same air, all else being equal, the one with better intonation will appear louder. Period. Hence the problem with Bb instrumentation. They are simply not able to push the same amount of air as a Bugle is able to. I know a lot of people on here want to support XYZ corps or ZYX for being loud on Bb instrumentation. And perhaps their currant day perception is that they are loud. I suspect that is because they have become use to the watered down versions of drum corps and they simply don't know what loud is or they have forgotten what loud is. . The Bugle horn lines back in the day put out a wall of sound that has been UNMATCHED by any of the Bb hornlines regardless of instrumentation, staging , intonation or any of the other things mentioned so far in this thread. Amplified corps excluded...(as they simply do not count). I can only think of one Bb corps that I really thought put out a wall of sound that was "close" to some of the Bugle lines of yesteryear and that one may surprise you. That would have been the 2007 Cadets. When they shut up long enough to let the horn line actually play some notes (and granted that was not too much) their wall of sound was quite piercing. You could feel it in your chest much like you could during the day of the bugles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 that was a funny way to end your post liz. i fell off the chair. If Andy can work in any situation I figured what the heck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrifle Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 When black boots were traded in for ballet slippers. When so called drum corps convinced themselves that people attending parades would rather see them waving to them and acting silly to solicit a response rather than look "cool" like a real drum and bugle corps. When they started taking any old flubadub off the street, handing them equipment and putting them in an American flag squad. When Gs went to Bs. When drum heads went from sounding like drum heads to sounding like cardboard. When drum corps ceased to be something unique and different. $$$$$$$$$$$$. When they started playing music from other planets. Cross pollination of band and drum corps instructors. I would be interested in hearing some opinions about why attendance at shows is a fraction of what it once was, not that this question has not come up before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) I suspect that is because they have become use to the watered down versions of drum corps and they simply don't know what loud is or they have forgotten what loud is. Ed, I've been around drum corps in one way or another since 1967. I remember the "wall of sound" G instrument days quite well.... I haven't forgotten what that sound was like, at all. Like I've said... I loved it. But again like I've said... I've heard any number of B-flat/multi-key lines that have put out that kind of sound, beyond a shadow of a doubt. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Edited June 22, 2013 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ed, I've been around drum corps in one way or another since 1967. I remember the "wall of sound" G instrument days quite well.... I haven't forgotten what that sound was like, at all. Like I've said... I loved it. But again like I've said... I've heard any number of B-flat/multi-key lines that have put out that kind of sound, beyond a shadow of a doubt. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think his point Fran, was that hornlines of years ago were somewhere between 27-48 horns and today they need in the vicinity of 72-85 horns to match THAT kind of sound. Just sayin'. Hell, Sol Anthony, by himself, could out-volume a lot of today's contra lines. You might say he played with conviction. You taking a 'busman's' holiday to Bayonne tomorrow??? If so, see you there. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 When black boots were traded in for ballet slippers. When so called drum corps convinced themselves that people attending parades would rather see them waving to them and acting silly to solicit a response rather than look "cool" like a real drum and bugle corps. When they started taking any old flubadub off the street, handing them equipment and putting them in an American flag squad. When Gs went to Bs. When drum heads went from sounding like drum heads to sounding like cardboard. When drum corps ceased to be something unique and different. $$$$$$. When they started playing music from other planets. Cross pollination of band and drum corps instructors. I would be interested in hearing some opinions about why attendance at shows is a fraction of what it once was, not that this question has not come up before. i hear ya. but your going to hit a nerve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I think his point Fran, was that hornlines of years ago were somewhere between 27-48 horns and today they need in the vicinity of 72-85 horns to match THAT kind of sound. Just sayin'. Hell, Sol Anthony, by himself, could out-volume a lot of today's contra lines. You might say he played with conviction. You taking a 'busman's' holiday to Bayonne tomorrow??? If so, see you there. Ray i'm with you ray. fran is just gotten like me.......OLD. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 i'm with you ray. fran is just gotten like me.......OLD. LOL. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Hell, Sol Anthony, by himself, could out-volume a lot of today's contra lines. You might say he played with conviction. Yeah... but Sol was a special case. LOL. Seriously... I would have loved to have Sol and Ted Sasso in the same contra line. Heck, they would have been the entire contra line. They could have been in a 70-person horn line and still be balanced against the rest of the line. Two monster players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Me saying out loud just because someone said something back then, would it still be true....the answer is we actually will never know. And possibly if he was still around, the activity would have been influenced by his say-so at the DCA rules congress in 2003 and stayed with G. Just as possible that he could have changed his mind with time. Like I said, we will never know. She has a point. Had Dreitzer still been with us, arranging and teaching in the junior and senior ranks, it would be interesting to have heard his opinion in 1999, when the issue went forth in DCI. Consider that by that time, instead of a variety of manufacturers making G bugles with a variety of designs, we were down to two manufacturers, and some claim that their G horns were made to the same specs as their Bb/F product lines, just with some more/less tubing to put them in the key of G. The interview provides insightful context too, showing that Dreitzer was ready to go to the three-valve horn 15 years before the majority vote brought it in. So "in his time", he was ahead of his time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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