Gary Matczak Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The interview provides insightful context too, showing that Dreitzer was ready to go to the three-valve horn 15 years before the majority vote brought it in. So "in his time", he was ahead of his time. ,........three valve horns,.........as long as they stay in G,......... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Hence the problem with Bb instrumentation. They are simply not able to push the same amount of air as a Bugle is able to. I know a lot of people on here want to support XYZ corps or ZYX for being loud on Bb instrumentation. And perhaps their currant day perception is that they are loud. I suspect that is because they have become use to the watered down versions of drum corps and they simply don't know what loud is or they have forgotten what loud is. . The Bugle horn lines back in the day put out a wall of sound that has been UNMATCHED by any of the Bb hornlines regardless of instrumentation, staging , intonation or any of the other things mentioned so far in this thread. Amplified corps excluded...(as they simply do not count). I can only think of one Bb corps that I really thought put out a wall of sound that was "close" to some of the Bugle lines of yesteryear and that one may surprise you. That would have been the 2007 Cadets. When they shut up long enough to let the horn line actually play some notes (and granted that was not too much) their wall of sound was quite piercing. You could feel it in your chest much like you could during the day of the bugles. I'm not brass expert, I'm a percussionist. However last year, I heard 2 corps in G, Empire and Renegades, and Bucs was just as loud as they were...with more visual demand to boot. Cabs wasn't that far behind...I just think their visual demand got to them in spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Since you have little interest in looking up the interview, here it is ... your opinion will still be your own ... just wanted you to have the full context of the "G" comments ... Q. What do you consider your greatest triumph in senior corps? A. The Skyliners of course, have won just about every major title. But the first show in 1960 - St. Pat's Preview of Champions in Jersey City. Hawthorne had been unbeatable the year before, and we went out and knocked them off. I was playing in the line then, too. That was a very gratifying experience. You could talk about the three DCA Championships we've won, you could talk about the "Dream"; winning the "Dream" is always a great feeling. Last year's DCA Championship was a little watered down! But it was great because we won high horns despite the rain. Q. You mentioned earlier the fascination you had for the first single valve horn corps that you ever saw. How do you feel about the new double piston valve bugles? Do you think DCA will take this path in the future? A. Well, if you remember the last meeting we had on it, the feeling was the hell with the two-valve horn, let's go to three but keep it in the key of G. I was amazed because I introduced the idea to DCA. What we are using now is a two-valve G trumpet, with the rotary. The horn ceased to be a bugle when we stopped using Army Regulation bugles and added a valve. So now, there are G trumpets. DCA said in effect, "Why be hypocritical, let's go to the three but keep it in G because we still want that drum corps sound; we don't want that Bb band sound." Personally, I do not care if we went for six valves; as long as it is in G, we still have the same sound but with more versatility. We would still have drum and bugle corps! Interviwer comment: Hy Dreitzer is a helluva man to talk to. Had we not been both so tired on that spring morning at 2:15am.We could have talked drum corps all night. I personally feel that this person is the patron saints of drum corps music. I do not know that anybody could challenge that... Andy "for his time is well documented ... you just have to look for it" Lisko Still have my copy of this in the 1976 Yearbook. One of the few program type booklets I didn't stupidly give away years ago when the basement got damp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) volume may also be affected by todays visual demands. it's tough to crank out a ton of sound while running a 4 to 5 at 180 bpm. Gotta remember this next time I bring up style of playing is different BITD and today IMO. And also face it, more tubing means more air needed.... Edited June 22, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 ,........three valve horns,.........as long as they stay in G,......... he also said six valves............as long an in G.............. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) If you were at Prelims last year, you can't tell me MBI wasn't as loud in B Flat as a good G hornline. Crown is also loud as sin. The Bucs, when they feel it's the right moment in the show to do it, and only then, will also unleash more than they are given credit for. Part of the problem is many horn lines are just smaller. The 'big sound' was also procured at the expense of distortion. Power can still be generated- it's just that at times when the horns get loud... the sound/timbre spreads, people go out of tune, and musicality and nuance is lost. By the way , this comes from a guy who played piston rotor for 4 of his 6 seasons in Corps, owns one, and also has a G-D tenor that he'll get around to restoring. I also play G in Almuni Corps as well. It's not that I don't like those old beasts, I do. It's like comparing a 1968 Camaro Muscle Car to a modern one. Yeah the old one is sexy, but doesn't handle as well, is less reliable, and isn't as fast, nor as safe. Power hornlines are still extant in b Flat, just rarer. Edited June 22, 2013 by BigW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) If you were at Prelims last year, you can't tell me MBI wasn't as loud in B Flat as a good G hornline. Crown is also loud as sin. The Bucs, when they feel it's the right moment in the show to do it, and only then, will also unleash more than they are given credit for. Part of the problem is many horn lines are just smaller. The 'big sound' was also procured at the expense of distortion. Power can still be generated- it's just that at times when the horns get loud... the sound/timbre spreads, people go out of tune, and musicality and nuance is lost. By the way , this comes from a guy who played piston rotor for 4 of his 6 seasons in Corps, owns one, and also has a G-D tenor that he'll get around to restoring. I also play G in Almuni Corps as well. It's not that I don't like those old beasts, I do. It's like comparing a 1968 Camaro Muscle Car to a modern one. Yeah the old one is sexy, but doesn't handle as well, is less reliable, and isn't as fast, nor as safe. Power hornlines are still extant in b Flat, just rarer. don't know about your car analogy. i had a 68 camaro. z28. it's was awsome. and i never lost a race. lot's of power. as for safe....ya got me there...........lol Edited June 22, 2013 by donincardona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Play my Schilke B5 and a bugle and tell me you cant play just as loud as a bugle. It is not the amount of volume...it is the distance the sound can travel projected by the G horn. If you ever played my trumpet, you would never want to play a bugle again. I do play and arrange for both types of groups...much rather play a good trumpet than the best bugle. I am a member of the Bugler's Hall of Fame and I still play with Alumni groups on bugle. I am a dinosaur that knows the difference. Over and over...every freaking year, same stuff...aye yi yi 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 ... It is not the amount of volume...it is the distance the sound can travel projected by the G horn. If you ever played my trumpet, you would never want to play a bugle again. I do play and arrange for both types of groups...much rather play a good trumpet than the best bugle. I am a member of the Bugler's Hall of Fame and I still play with Alumni groups on bugle. I am a dinosaur that knows the difference. Over and over...every freaking year, same stuff...aye yi yi All is true and I no longer "miss" the days of bugles vs. trumpets, as I admit to not fully understanding the difference anyway. But after staying up til 2:00 watching DCI West last night, I don't care how many valves and what pitch horn or how many dents in it, watching Blue Devils walk around with poles all night and listening to Mandarins narratives separated by a few notes here and there, it wouldn't matter to me if they were playing harmonicas! I knew Santa Clara didn't have a chance when they went with a drum corps show. Maybe if the show started with a single drum thud followed by a blaring "BEGINNING IN 1815 AND CONTINUING THRU 1832..........." Highlight for me was Crown encore...... real musicianship........ reminded me of Marine Drum & Bugle...... no pit, no amplification, no color guard, no unnecessary artistic arm waving........ just music..... I really enjoyed these fine musicians. Joe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 All is true and I no longer "miss" the days of bugles vs. trumpets, as I admit to not fully understanding the difference anyway. But after staying up til 2:00 watching DCI West last night, I don't care how many valves and what pitch horn or how many dents in it, watching Blue Devils walk around with poles all night and listening to Mandarins narratives separated by a few notes here and there, it wouldn't matter to me if they were playing harmonicas! I knew Santa Clara didn't have a chance when they went with a drum corps show. Maybe if the show started with a single drum thud followed by a blaring "BEGINNING IN 1815 AND CONTINUING THRU 1832..........." Highlight for me was Crown encore...... real musicianship........ reminded me of Marine Drum & Bugle...... no pit, no amplification, no color guard, no unnecessary artistic arm waving........ just music..... I really enjoyed these fine musicians. Joe Actually, if you watch the Blue Devils show in a "certain state of mind", it's pretty awesome! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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