Plan9 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Pish Posh. Now, you're just trying to roll around with me in the mud. You previously accused me of judging the motives of others earlier and I offered a confession. Now, you're betraying your own standards by calling my motives into question and putting words in my mouth. I'm about as powerless as the rest of us on this forum spilling our opinions. Your intolerance for opinions that differ from yours is unbecoming. Forums such as this only survive because of differing opinions. If we all agreed then a thread would last about 2 pages. I could couch my opinions in a whole tangled mess of political correctness, but I prefer plain speech. Get used to it. That's not it at all. Critiquing is one thing, suggesting something isn't working is another, saying you don't like a corps performance still another............... but digging into motives and imagining the mental state of a drum corps kid or leveling the kind to clearly (meant to be) harmful diatribe you and a few others are comfortable with on here, does not constitute reasonable consideration for ANY hard working MM or those that get them field ready. It's just mean and not even good conversation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 To answer Granny's question: No. I am fascinated by BD's production. I approach it the same way I might approach a piece of abstract art in the museum. It's not "pretty" or even pleasing to look at, but I might be rewarded by giving it some careful observation. There are disjointed parts within that I might recognize or associate with. BD is not entertainment. BD is homework. When I watch their show, I feel like I'm taking an exam. When it's over, the sensation is not resolution, but relief. Music (and dance) is nothing more than communication. It can be the most sublime form of communication, yes, but its purpose is to make some kind of human connection -- a feeling, a thought, a piece of information. Modern-day BD is less about communication and more about didactics. It is an exhibition of technical skill, not an attempt to connect with something inside me. Like everyone else, I appreciate the skill on display. But there are a lot of things in this world made with supreme skill -- dental equipment, tax-accounting software, handguns, parachutes, spinach souffle -- that I prefer to avoid. BD's show feels like an act of defiance. We dare you to watch this. There is almost no attempt at invitation, no sympathetic quality. It's all one-way. It feels selfish. Brilliant, flawless selfishness. Interesting take on it. It's like the review I just read of the Atlanta show (by someone admitting to be a layman and no expert). He said: "Blue Devils: I don’t know what the hell I just watched, but I loved it. I need to see this show about 5 more times. Correct me if I’m wrong, and I probably am, but this show doesn’t have any stop for applause and transition to the next piece of music phases does it? If so, I didn’t notice. Just felt like 12 minutes of go, go, go. Maybe I was just too enthralled. Magical show that I just want to see again and again." Appreciation comes in many forms. Applause is but one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueorginal Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 i'm not one for Booing! But maybe people should find other ways to voice their opinions on a corps show....they could make the corps they don't like into their hot dog corps and go eat and shop souvies during the show....they could leave the stadium before the corps play....or they could just not by a souvie from them as that hits them in the pocket book....so many ways to let your feelings known without booing.....OR you can rant on a message board.... Just remember the performers are kids :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Appreciation comes in many forms. Applause is but one. Indeed. At the risk of hyperbole, most folks didn't like Picaso at the time, either. I'm still not sure I like Picaso, but at least I understand (a little, very little) about the value of his work and can even find myself enjoying it from time to time. But appreciation is not necessarily the same thing as enjoyment. I "love" a nonstop, whirlwind, bravado performance that leaves me dizzy, too. But if there's nothing in the performance that attempts to involve me in the experience, it's all just a bunch of whirlygigs and noise, no matter how finely machined, and how perfectly in tune, it may be. I can "love" BD's show for all the wizardry of it all, but that's not the reason why I love music (and dance). I love it for the human connection, the emotion. BD '13 feels bloodless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brichtimp Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Interesting take on it. It's like the review I just read of the Atlanta show (by someone admitting to be a layman and no expert). He said: "Blue Devils: I don't know what the hell I just watched, but I loved it. I need to see this show about 5 more times. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but this show doesn't have any stop for applause and transition to the next piece of music phases does it? If so, I didn't notice. Just felt like 12 minutes of go, go, go. Maybe I was just too enthralled. Magical show that I just want to see again and again." Appreciation comes in many forms. Applause is but one. I think one of the really cool aspects of DCI this year is the wide diversity in show design where fans (like me) can appreciate the impact points and brass wall from Crown, the seemingly more cerebral Cadets investigation of Samuel Barber, featuring their kick-butt percussion and the fluid mix from BD. Since not one of the corps are truly clean yet (plenty of phasing, alignment and other flaws, even for the top 6), I find it fascinating to try to out-guess the judging based on my particular frame of reference. I would argue that a whole bunch of shows this year are highly involving and enjoyable, even if no scoring existed. Booing, I think, is in the 'grand American tradition,' but seems like more of a distraction compared with the creative product coming from these excellent ensembles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Friends...100 or so... is anecdotal at best. One that has access to Fan Network, or has been to a BD show the last 2 years outside of California ( and even Calif. this year ) can gauge for themselves the thousands of fans at attendance at numerous shows across the country. Rather than simple anecdotal assessment from as little as " 100 " or so local people, we have a much, much larger, more diverse, population , across many miles, and many ages, with diverse backgrounds to gauge interest with BD's show. The notion that most people in coast to coast attendances are really into BD 's show is simply being in denial, imo. People are absolutely entitled to like whatever it is they like, and dislike. But it serves no purpose to pretend that something in Drum Corps is popular with national audiences, when there is plenty of observable evidence to the contrary. That said, I 'm from New England, and I can share the experience with the poster here that in decades of attending DCI shows in New England, I have never witnessed a Corps ever booed for a show performance. Ever. Not Star. Not BD. Not anyone. But... this does not mean that they havn't told me what they liked and did not like in shows afterwards either. But that was local, small, and anecdotal as well. A much broader and deeper and more valuable assessment is when its national in nature in the assessment. hmmmmmmm.....as you said in some other post diversity is good ( I think you said it..lol) Anyway...my experience on tour has been somewhere in the middle...Do many dislike BDs show ..sure BUT I have heard the same of Crown, PR, even SCV who is being recieved very well this year. It only shows you that people have their own perception of a respose or lack of one. Just recently ( NOT BD ) I was sitting with people I caught up with and they had very little reaction to a corps many loved ( or seemed to ) when I asked did they like the corps they were like ..that was freakin awsome, so my respose was " you didnt look like you liked it," They said I was just blown away. Sqeeky wheels always seem to get the greese or the attention BUT IMO it doesnt mean the loudest people are right.............just the loudest. another perception...I also from New England remember bitd MANY MANY booers at shows..even BITD for many beloved corps, Garfield,Boston, etc etc..hmmmm manybe I never did for 27th..lol..and it never, IMO meant the corps or show wasnt good just that people wanted THEIR pick to win..............all just my observation . On tour I have seen alot more acceptance of shows that people seemd to think the rest of the world hates, so as I said perception I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirefenix Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 If BD wins, we huff and puff on the forum for a bit. Then most of us end up finding ways to like BD's production. The crowd has been ready for a new champion for a few years yet, however Crown has some time to prove if they're ready to be that champion. Devils may not be the champ DCP wants, but they're the champ DCP needs. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenMonster Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) I think one of the really cool aspects of DCI this year is the wide diversity in show design where fans (like me) can appreciate the impact points and brass wall from Crown, the seemingly more cerebral Cadets investigation of Samuel Barber, featuring their kick-butt percussion and the fluid mix from BD. Since not one of the corps are truly clean yet (plenty of phasing, alignment and other flaws, even for the top 6), I find it fascinating to try to out-guess the judging based on my particular frame of reference. I would argue that a whole bunch of shows this year are highly involving and enjoyable, even if no scoring existed. Booing, I think, is in the 'grand American tradition,' but seems like more of a distraction compared with the creative product coming from these excellent ensembles. I feel the same way. There are so many different styles of shows and it's really awesome! Something for everyone. I pretty much love every show every year, so i'm probably in the minority here on DCP but the variety really is awesome. If you don't like what BD does, well there's a bunch of other shows you might enjoy more. If the show you liked most doesn't win, it's not really the end of the world. I think booing is really not the right way to go about showing your dislike for the competitive results. I think most people need to just chill out and just let the corps do their thing. If you don't like it, you don't like it. I'd say give it another shot, but there are a lot of bitter people. Edited July 29, 2013 by HiddenMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Indeed. At the risk of hyperbole, most folks didn't like Picaso at the time, either. I'm still not sure I like Picaso, but at least I understand (a little, very little) about the value of his work and can even find myself enjoying it from time to time. But appreciation is not necessarily the same thing as enjoyment. I "love" a nonstop, whirlwind, bravado performance that leaves me dizzy, too. But if there's nothing in the performance that attempts to involve me in the experience, it's all just a bunch of whirlygigs and noise, no matter how finely machined, and how perfectly in tune, it may be. I can "love" BD's show for all the wizardry of it all, but that's not the reason why I love music (and dance). I love it for the human connection, the emotion. BD '13 feels bloodless. Good observation. The comment we sometimes hear that because somebody might not like ( for example ) the BD show for one reason or another, that they don't appreciate all the hard work that went into it, or even its cleverness, its performance execution levels, etc is silly. It does not give such audience goers the credit for understanding that " appreciation " and " entertainment enjoyment " are not neccessarily inclusive things at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) To answer Granny's question: No. I am fascinated by BD's production. I approach it the same way I might approach a piece of abstract art in the museum. It's not "pretty" or even pleasing to look at, but I might be rewarded by giving it some careful observation. There are disjointed parts within that I might recognize or associate with. BD is not entertainment. BD is homework. When I watch their show, I feel like I'm taking an exam. When it's over, the sensation is not resolution, but relief. Music (and dance) is nothing more than communication. It can be the most sublime form of communication, yes, but its purpose is to make some kind of human connection -- a feeling, a thought, a piece of information. Modern-day BD is less about communication and more about didactics. It is an exhibition of technical skill, not an attempt to connect with something inside me. Like everyone else, I appreciate the skill on display. But there are a lot of things in this world made with supreme skill -- dental equipment, tax-accounting software, handguns, parachutes, spinach souffle -- that I prefer to avoid. BD's show feels like an act of defiance. We dare you to watch this. There is almost no attempt at invitation, no sympathetic quality. It's all one-way. It feels selfish. Brilliant, flawless selfishness. Beautifully written. "Brilliant, flawless selfishness." .....Wow I will only suggest that I've been under hundreds of parachutes and it was thrilling and frightening and quite resolute when it was over.....like a BD show! Edited July 29, 2013 by Plan9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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