2014 Rules Proposals

[IllianaLancerContra]

Thinking back to the trombone solo in the Blast! version of Malaguena, I wouldn't mind hearing that in the pit one bit.

How much was the horn, and how much was the player?

[corpsband]

How much was the horn, and how much was the player?

Irrelevant.

Put the same player first on the trombone and then same part on a baritone. Both versions may be technically excellent but they will sound entirely different.

[jjeffeory]

Irrelevant.

Put the same player first on the trombone and then same part on a baritone. Both versions may be technically excellent but they will sound entirely different.

May not sound as different if the same player uses trombonium versus trombone except for the glisses. Not enough to warrant adding another instrument imho.

Also, different quality instrument ($$$) may also affect sound; again the difference is not enough to warrant adding another instrument in our idiom.

[MelloMatt]

I would be fully in support of the entertainment, but I would make a modification to the Brass. Bones and Horns can only be used in the pit and cannot march. No sousas at all.

[Tim K]

For me, including all brass instruments is both unnecessary and a bad move. As others have mentioned, we already have instruments that create a similar sound to sousaphones, trombones, French horns, etc. so including these instruments is not necessary and as far as kids already having knowledge of these instruments is concerned, my guess would be that most brass players in drum corps(percussion too for that matter) already play two or three instruments, especially those majoring in music. However, my biggest objection comes from a design standpoint. Part of what made the transition from Key of G to B-flat for me is that drum corps looked the same. Sousaphones, French horns, and trombones would alter that look and for me, could ruin it. That's also one of my major objections to woodwinds, They do not fit the look of a drum corps. There's nothing wrong with bands, and chances are if there was summer band circuit that competed (I can't go to fall shows), I'd be a supporter, but I want drum corps at a drum corps show.

There is nothing wrong with drum corps being distinct and we see it in music all the time. When I am at Symphony Hall in Boston and the BSO is performing, I want to hear Beethoven and the Dropkick Murphys coming out is not what I'm paying for, but if I am at the same venue in the Spring and it's Irish Night at the Pops, I'd be disappointed not to see Dropkick Murphys.When it comes to drum corps, I want a certain look and sound and the same holds true when I see a band.

[bawker]

Drum corps is at its best when the emotion trumps the technique.

Mike

Well stated.

I'd trial the entertainment change for a year at some shows . . .couldn't hurt. I don't go to drum corps shows for concert band style playing or subdued reactions; I go for the emotional, visceral charge it provides.

As for the instrumentation change, no thanks. You've had plenty of "palette additions" over the past decade, so figure out how to max those out first before crying about stifling artistic vision or whatever else.

[drumcorpsfever]

Don't know if anyone has read them yet, but two rules proposals are on the agenda for the upcoming Winter meetings.

The first is an instrumentation amendment that would allow for use of ANY brass instruments by DCI Corps, as versus the current bell-front only language in place. Would allow trombones, French Horns and Sousaphones on the field.

The second is another version of an "Entertainment Effect" on the scoring sheets.

Both proposals are made by the Madison Scouts.

Thoughts on either or both?

Regarding the 2 proposals:

(1) No. If I want to see and hear trombones, french horns and sousaphones, I'll go to a competitive band show. Some still lament the loss of G bugles (which, by the way, I think Bb has improved the quality of drum corps).

(2) No again. Until others corps that don't share Madison's "BYBO/Entertain-At-All-Costs" modus operandi come to the forefront on this kind of change in scoring, this one doesn't stand a chance if Madison walks - err - stands alone.

Edited January 31, 2014 by drumcorpsfever

[perc2100]

I'm very familiar with the new sheets, and I've heard several GE tapes since the sheets came out. and I agree, which is my point...playing stuff people know isn't going to get you points, nor should it. and knowing how DCa "uses" the communication type of thing...again, the show with the highest score last year was overly dependent on part of the triad of effect for their show.

if you're a judge, way up in the box, how are you able to tell if the "audience is engaged" if you follow the true wording on the sheet to the utmost literal way possible? You can't unless you're ignoring the corps and looking the stands to see if the silence is awe and wonderment, or people playing on their smart phones.

The problem is that people know the new sheets, and take the wording to be literal to the max.

the sheets are in a way, misworded. the audience isnt the fans...it's the effect judges.

But the judges are part of the audience. That's the thing that a lot of people who don't judge maybe have a hard time grasping, or even believing: but that is totally the truth. It kind of shocked me when I started judging - I found myself a lot more excited to watch/evaluate performances as an adjudicator than I do as a teacher. When I'm teaching, I'm doing nothing but look for mistakes to correct; but as an adjudicator I'm excited to see performances. I genuinely love when I see groups have great shows, when I see a design that really wows me, when a group has THE run of the season in front of me, when it's obvious students are having fun performing, etc. I love it.

And other judges I know (DCI, WGI, local circuits, etc) are the same way. So if a show engages the judge, it can be inferred that the show also engages the audience (since, again, the judges ARE part the audience).

[perc2100]

Most people I've talked to seem to be fine with concert brass instruments being used for features or solos. It also seems to be the consensus that marching a section of trombones, sousaphones, or concert horns would be impractical at best and a horrible disaster at worst. So I say legalize them, with an amendment (or possibly just a "public understanding") stating that the primary reason is for sideline features/solos.

My only worry is that this would encourage the woodwind supporters to continue or increase pushing their cause, if the BOD allows these band instruments in.

As far as the Entertainment Effect... I guess I'm not against it in theory, but the real-life implementation of it would likely be tricky and garner a lot of complaints about subjectivism and favoritism (like GE does already, hmmm)... If it were to pass, I don't think it should be a full half of the GE score as proposed. Maybe 10 points instead of 20 (so Effect would be 15 Music, 15 Visual, 10 Entertainment).

Or as Jeff keeps saying... If the judges actually adhered to the full wording on the sheets, we may not need a change at all.

Again, if you look at the DCI GE sheets, listen to DCI GE tapes, I think you will find that judges are actually judging to the rubric on the sheets.

I think the bigger "problem" (which is not really a problem per say), is that the general public/DCP absolutely does not understand the GE sheets, does not understand judging, does not know how judges are trained, etc. The general public/DCP sees groups THEY LIKE/are entertained by, and assume if judge's put another group on top than the judges are wrong, or the sheets are wrong, etc.

[perc2100]

Well I agree that Trombone does not equal Euphonium, nor does it equal baritone.

Corps can already and have historically used:

Marching French Horns instead of regular french horns or mellophones. Marching french horns were used extensively in Drum Corps until they went out of favor of all mellophones lines, which was a trend started by the Cadets and Star of Indiana in the Mid-late 1980s. BD fudged around with different middle voice designs during that time, so you'll see some interesting mellophone/flugel looking hybrid horns with french horn bugles from BD in the 80s. Most other corps used a blend of mellophones for the lead parts and frenchies for the lower parts which resulted in a pretty rich and powerful sound. Problem is that marching french horns (and regular french horns) are pretty hard to play compared to the other brass instruments. People cracked notes quite a bit, even in the top corps. I know the Cavaliers were using hybrid mellophone/frenchies all the way to around '94.

!

Corps may use marching trombones, or tromboniums instead of trombones. I believe that the Madison Scouts used to use DEG Tromboniums for a time back in the day for that bright trombone tone versus the "darker" baritone and euph voices. Tromboniums were used in the higher parts; baritones for the lower parts; euphs for the lowest parts. I play on one of these ( in marching band), Baritone (in corps), and euphonium was my major instrument. Very different sounds and weights that seem to be pretty lost on people today, except I believe that SCV and Phantom are exceptions...

Current Trombonium designs look like this:

(Trombonium) versus (Trombone)

So there really isn't a need for the concert instruments because we already and historically have equivalents that "sound" like the concert versions of trombones, baritones, and euphoniums.

I have brought up possible alternate brass voicings before. In addition to french horns and tromboniums, corps could use flugel horns, tenor horns, and alto horns in combination with the trumpets, cornets, mellophones, baritones, euphs, and various tuba sizes to create some pretty neat and unique brass "colors", but they're not doing it.

There are many already legal instruments. If anyone cares to see the variety possible legal instruments including some of those that are NOT being used look at this website:

http://www.brucehaag.com/page10.php

The only thing I don't really see there are piccolo trumpets and different sized tubas.

If almost all of the corps aren't using these instruments, instruments that are ALREADY legal in DCI, why in the world would they want to try a regular trombone or concert french horn?

1) that trombonium has similar tone to a trombone, however it can't do the trombone gliss, or get similar articulation to trombone (as far as 'sliding' to note changes in soloistic stuff for example).

2) a mellophone does not sound like a concert french horn. A high school in my district had a moment in their field show a few years ago where the mellophone line put down their mellos, picked up concert horns, and played a soli. It sounded INCREDIBLE. I saw rehearsals where the phrase was A/B'ed and the kids played the same thing on mellophone, and then played it again on french horn. There was a significant difference, and the phrase on french horn was a beautiful effect.

So as much as someone wants to say there are marching equivalent horns that kind of/sort of have an almost-the-same sound/timbre, they are still not exactly the same. Trombones and concert french horns can add very cool musical effect: more so than the marching versions.

I would also guess purchasing a trombone or concert horn would be WAY cheaper/easier than those other frankenstein-esque things. A corps can use a concert french horn line for a season, send it back to the manufacturer to refurbish, and then resell to a scholastic program or student at a discount. There's not much of a demand for tromboniums, and probably not for the marching french horns (because, as you say, they're harder to play than mellophones).