Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Good points. Of course, the groups that are going to go that route will have already considered those logistics. Some this idea stemmed from the Hopkins rumors last month about including woodwind instruments. don't ever assume people have proposed stuff and considered the logistics. history shows thats not even close to accurate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 From studying history and seeing how progression comes forward, I do think that eventually woodwind instruments and other typical instruments associated with school bands will make their way into Drum Corps. It's a double edged sword: you lose one of the main things that makes the activity different from a typical marching band but at the same time you open up this great experience up for whole new crop of kids. I honestly think the DCI experience is already opened up...that is I know many woodwind players that have participated in DC...I really don't think any added benefit will be accomplished IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Let me apologize for the length of this post. About me: This is my first post but I am by no means to DCP as I've been following for several years in the shadows, so I know how heated things can get. I never had the opportunity to march(I got into this around my age out year) but I am an avid fan and supporter, and I very much respect the rich history of the Drum Corps movement. For what it matters, I am also a band director. It is my hope that because of these elements that I can be give a different point of view. Now that that's out of the way, let's get to the point..... Interestingly enough this idea came to me from studying the evolution of the Nation Football League. Surprisingly, if one were to compare early Drum Corps to the early NFL, you would see a lot of similarities: local, community-based amateur teams competing in local competitions. In both scenarios, a handful of successful teams decided it was in there best interest to get together and form their own organization with specific rules and guidlines. Because of this, both groups changed through the years and are not necessarily very similar to what they were when they first started, i.e transitioning from a rugby-based approach, changing point values for touchdowns and field goals for the NFL and moving away from bugles and military-style precision drill in Drum Corps, to name a few. The point is, things typically change if there is a perception that it will make the activity better. Now let me clarify a few things about my own personal opinions: 1) I am a fan of the all brass set-up. It's a wonderful, powerful sound. 2) I am not someone who preaches that things need to "evolve" just for the sake of change. Change doesn't always make for better. From studying history and seeing how progression comes forward, I do think that eventually woodwind instruments and other typical instruments associated with school bands will make their way into Drum Corps. It's a double edged sword: you lose one of the main things that makes the activity different from a typical marching band but at the same time you open up this great experience up for whole new crop of kids. What if we could have our cake and eat it too? What if DCI modified their Open Class to be a true, anything goes category (and I'm not talking SoundSport here)? The groups that feel like they want to go that direction can now do that without being penalized. Leave a World Class Brass category (forgive my lack of creativity on these) for the traditionalists. In terms of competitions,the divisions should be treated like they would at any other competition and be given their own separate scores. The key really is to not allow these two divisions to compete against each other, as you don't want to get into the issue of either orchestration setup working better and comparing the two. Looking at it from a neutral perspective, the benefits seem to outweigh the negatives in terms of letting woodwinds and other instruments into DCI and that's why I see it happening in the future.The move would open up the playing field for many talented musicians who for whatever reason can't/won't learn another instrument and will open up the market value of the DCI brand. It may give credibility and incentive for directors who for some reason don't appreciate what DCI is about to plan trips with their students to shows and purchase DVDs/Blu-rays. A World level Marching Band group would be a great way to get the season started. But most importantly, it provides an educational opportunity and disciplined outlet for more kids. Isn't that what Drum Corps was about when it started? What do you think? Would this setup fly? Do you think this would be in the best interest of DCI? I'm game. I think with how much Open Class has shrunk nowadays it could make sense to make Open Class = anything goes type of thing. The feeder corps for SCV, BD, and Colts could compete against their World Counterparts as they do anyway Finals week. Of maybe make it a subsection of DCA: an anything goes class. Is that what Soundsport is: any instrumentation on a limited performance 'field?' Maybe that can/will evolve to something larger if there is enough interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TboneBtonegirl Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just don't add woodwinds please!!! Also no trombones! And yes, this is coming from a trombonist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 DCI should have done this long ago, just as you said. They should have had a Drum Corps Division and a Marching Band Division. DCI did do that. Multiple times. a. In the 1999 pre-season, DCI established a band division. No one entered it. At the time, there had been a couple of groups like Northern Lights and Regina Lions who had already been touring in parallel with the DCI tour, and yet they did not sign up either. b. In some other year, the voting members of DCI agreed to endorse an anything-goes instrumentation status for two touring DCI member corps. Cadets were going to be one of those corps. No corps followed through on the opportunity. c. Now we have SoundSport, which allows any instrumentation. (This did not happen "long ago", though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We forget that at one time, the Boston area had circuits that included bands. Interestingly, they were never called "marching" bands. That was what high schools and colleges did at half time. New Jersey may have had the bands as well. Bands and drum corps competed in the same shows, often shared instructors and arrangers, and many of the bands and drum corps had close connections. While none of the bands were at the same level as 27th, BAC, or North Star, some of the bands were better than many of the drum corps as anyone who remembers the glory days of St. William's in Dorchester, St. Agnes of Arlington or St. Ann's Neposnset could attest, and at that time many of the bands had better musicians since every kid in a band could read music which was not the case with all drum corps, but the attraction at shows was always the drum corps and many kids who marched in bands made the switch to drum corps. I can't say I remember it being the other way around. I remember hearing talk in DCI's early days (around 75 or 76) that DCI was considering a band division because it had a drill team division and a color guard competition, but that may have ben wishful thinking of Boston area directors who wanted more for the bands, but the drill team division was dropped and the color guard competition was no longer necessary after WGI. I'm not sure much is going to happen with Soundsport and Drum Line Battle (maybe I'm wrong--it wouldn't be the first time). DCI should probably stick with drum corps. Now if Bands of America or YEA had a summer component, that woudl make things interesting and I would attend shows sice it would probably better fit my schedule than fall shows do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Observer Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am finding out some very interesting things about drum corps' history. Thank you all for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) And what of the "feeder" program that the OC now provides to WC? Little Sally makes it through auditions to claim her goal of marching clarinet with ABC Open Class corps, then finds no WC corps for her to advance into? Your proposal is ice on the slippery slope of any-instrumentation in all of drum corps. I agree that it's a slippery slope, but not if the two divisions are treated as totally separate forms of competition. As painful as it might be to the traditionalist among us (myself included), if we were to bring in outside businesspeople to look at the situation, I suspect that they'd say that DCI should be exploring the possibility of having BOA join up in hosting a summer band circuit that could share the DCI summer schedule, and have DCI Finals week encompass both the summer band and the drum corps championships. Doing so could likely bring in several hundred new participants to DCI Finals week, and potentially thousands of additional butts in the seats that week. George Hopkins could turn Cadets into a very good marching band, and still be seen on Saturday night mixed in with the drum corps. Were that offered to him and whoever else wanted to avail themselves of the band option, it'd be a real test of his seriousness. Would he be happy being the DCI "Band Champion" if there's a separate "Drum Corps Champion"? Only one way to find out. Edited January 31, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I agree that it's a slippery slope, but not if the two divisions are treated as totally separate forms of competition. As painful as it might be to the traditionalist among us (myself included), if we were to bring in outside businesspeople to look at the situation, I suspect that they'd say that DCI should be exploring the possibility of having BOA join up in hosting a summer band circuit that could share the DCI summer schedule, and have DCI Finals week encompass both the summer band and the drum corps championships. Doing so could likely bring in several hundred new participants to DCI Finals week, and potentially thousands of additional butts in the seats that week. George Hopkins could turn Cadets into a very good marching band, and still be seen on Saturday night mixed in with the drum corps. Were that offered to him and whoever else wanted to avail themselves of the band option, it'd be a real test of his seriousness. Would he be happy being the DCI "Band Champion" if there's a separate "Drum Corps Champion"? Only one way to find out. I strongly disagree that outside businessmen would suggest a blending of the two. Imagine trying to explain to a mixed crowd that Cadets, for example, won the band class but that BD beat their score and won the DC class. It would muddy both groups and homogenize both into non-existence and irrelevance. Would businessmen suggest that Punkin' Chunkin' participants hurl soccer balls instead? Or how about Swamp people shoot wild pigs instead of gators? How about "Table Tennis" uses tennis balls? Unique and distinct sells; few are interested in "the same, but new". Just ask Coke. If GH wants to be the best band, let him convince BOA to start a summer circuit. Even as the champion he'll be just another band. He already has that option available to him but, well, here he is... That's all we need to know. Edited January 31, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Outside folks have been consulted about DCI before. None of the DCI folks liked the feedback they received. (e.g. shows need to be under 10 minutes to accomodate commercial breaks in a TV broadcast.) Hard to believe it would ever happen down the road. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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