GUARDLING Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So much for conciliatory. No -- it's not. READ what I wrote. FACT: The battery stands still because they literally have nothing to contribute to the music at that point. So the designer's choice to have them stand still reflects only this fact. Has nothing to do with "who's more important". Could the designer have chosen another way to involve those performers (without using the battery instruments)? ABSOLUTELY. But standing still has nothing to do with relative importance. You're missing the boat on this one. Correllation, causation, all that jazz. what some don't get is sometimes in design, it's what one doesn't do which can speak volumes....its kind of like flooding the field with people with no negative space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'd like to see a ballad in which the percussion section does all the playing and the horn line is tacet. Talk about something completely different. Didn't Vanguard do this last year with the Castle on a Cloud segment of their show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Didn't Vanguard do this last year with the Castle on a Cloud segment of their show? Indeed they did. Just the pit played while the horns were tacit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 and BD's percussion #### the bed. That is very true. There was a percussion spread for awhile, but it really opened up at the end, to counteract BD's big spread in Visual. That big musical spread Phantom had though pushed them over the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 what some don't get is sometimes in design, it's what one doesn't do which can speak volumes....its kind of like flooding the field with people with no negative space This is also true in music. Rests have "negative space"- without those to contrast to the sound- Also, someone also finally pointed out something underlying the whole shebang- Yes, the visual aspects have gained in stature and weight. back in those good ole days, Guard got, I believe... 2 points in DCA and DCI. Two whole points to represent their total contribution to the entire program. 2 big whoppin' percent of the total score, and IIRC, they had to fight their cans off for even THAT much recognition. I would believe every reader can agree looking back that 2 percent weight was unfair at the very least. Given certain corps and certain circumstances- to compete, some corps had to accentuate their visual advantages and develop programming that was more visually enhanced to compensate for relative weaknesses elsewhere to their competition. Also, that aspects like the guard were totally under-weighted in regards to the total package and overall score. The question would then be, if one feels they are now overweighted, how does King Solomon cut the baby to weigh out the proper proportions? There's no quite right answer there, everyone has their own ideas on the weight of contribution of the various elements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Well, in regards to Fran's thoughts on the percussion ballad, SOKA Renaissance Vanguard started off their program last year with a lovely ballad intro to set up the initial strike. It's not crazy to think in those terms. If one believes that percussionists are musicians, capable of creating musicality and possessed of the entire spectrum of musical thought, which indeed they are- it's entirely possible and entirely attainable. For some reason, I think the kidding and jokes will now commence. But I am entirely serious about the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) However, the art has really gravitated toward visual. . Without question in my view. BITD Corps had no " themes ". Guards were primarily auxilary units that complmented the Brass and the Percussion. The Honor Guard section of the Color Guards rarely moved on the field for much of the show. Soloists were mostly from the Brass sections, and on rare occasions, the Percussion section, and almost never from the Guard section..... Now, fast forward to today, and all Corps have " Themes ". What Corps section principally drives these " Themes " ? Brass ? Percussion ? Guard ? Well to be sure, to some degree, each does. But this was not my question. My question asks which section PRINCIPALLY drives the Theme. Well, thats an easy one for us to determine. Its the Guard. Sticking with our example of 2008 Phantom Regiment for our example of this, we can readily assess that the Theme " Spartacus " could actually be grasped by audiences without the Brass or the Percussion sections playing anything at all. The Guard performance alone by the end of the show would have most in the audience figuring out what the Theme is. Heck, if one has ears, they can determine the Theme during the show ( and without announcer announcements ) by simply listening to a Guard member shouting it out to us. Now, lets say we take away the Phantom's Guard from the show. Phantom goes out with just Brass and Percussion, no Guard at all. Could the Brass and Percussion playing allow audiences to guess the Theme ? Doubtful,( although the opener might give some in the audience a clue that are familar with some Music.) But everyone in the audience gets the Theme of " Spartacus " from the Guard. So of course modern day Drum Corps its primarily a VISUAL medium now, where the Visual and Guard are weighted more heavily in the scores and placements, and where the all important Theme is predominently conveyed by the Guard and the Visual and where the top placing Corps mostly separate themselves from the rest of the pack.. Edited February 26, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Without question in my view. BITD Corps had no " themes ". Guards were primarily auxilary units that complmented the Brass and the Percussion. The Honor Guard section of the Color Guards rarely moved on the field for much of the show. Soloists were mostly from the Brass sections, and on rare occasions, the Percussion section, and almost never from the Guard section..... Now, fast forward to today, and all Corps have " Themes ". What Corps section principally drives these " Themes " ? Brass ? Percussion ? Guard ? Well to be sure, to some degree, each does. But this was not my question. My question asks which section PRINCIPALLY drives the Theme. Well, thats an easy one for us to determine. Its the Guard. Sticking with our example of 2008 Phantom Regiment for our example of this we can see that the Theme " Spartacus " could actually be grasped by audiences without the Brass or the Percussion sections playing anything at all. The Guard performance alone by the end of the show would have most in the audience figuring out what the Theme is. Heck, if one has ears, they can determine the Theme during the show ( and without announcer announcements ) by simply listening to a Guard member shouting it out to us. Now, lets say we take away the Phantom Guard from the show. Phantom goes out with just Brass and Percussion, no Guard at all. Could the Brass and Percussion playing allow anyone to guess the Theme ? Hardly. So of course its primarily a VISUAL medium now, where the Visual and Guard are weighted more heavily in the scores and placements, and where the Theme is predominently conveyed by the Guard and the Visual and where the top placing Corps seperate themselves from the rest of the pack.. So, apparently the guard industry has now run out of visual ideas. Because today the best way to get additional visual points is to not enhance the guard, it's to have those responsible for providing the musical backdrop to the guard perform not only spectacularly well on their instruments, but to also perform ballet moves for SD. Do I have it right now? Hmmm. I wonder how long it will be before the guard's SD rep includes playing non-traditional drum corps instruments like violins and kazoos. /kinda-sarcasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So, apparently the guard industry has now run out of visual ideas. Because today the best way to get additional visual points is to not enhance the guard, it's to have those responsible for providing the musical backdrop to the guard perform not only spectacularly well on their instruments, but to also perform ballet moves for SD. Do I have it right now? Hmmm. I wonder how long it will be before the guard's SD rep includes playing non-traditional drum corps instruments like violins and kazoos. /kinda-sarcasm Haven't people had them play horns before during shows? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Without question in my view. BITD Corps had no " themes ". Guards were primarily auxilary units that complmented the Brass and the Percussion. The Honor Guard section of the Color Guards rarely moved on the field for much of the show. Soloists were mostly from the Brass sections, and on rare occasions, the Percussion section, and almost never from the Guard section..... Now, fast forward to today, and all Corps have " Themes ". What Corps section principally drives these " Themes " ? Brass ? Percussion ? Guard ? Well to be sure, to some degree, each does. But this was not my question. My question asks which section PRINCIPALLY drives the Theme. Well, thats an easy one for us to determine. Its the Guard. Sticking with our example of 2008 Phantom Regiment for our example of this, we can readily assess that the Theme " Spartacus " could actually be grasped by audiences without the Brass or the Percussion sections playing anything at all. The Guard performance alone by the end of the show would have most in the audience figuring out what the Theme is. Heck, if one has ears, they can determine the Theme during the show ( and without announcer announcements ) by simply listening to a Guard member shouting it out to us. Now, lets say we take away the Phantom's Guard from the show. Phantom goes out with just Brass and Percussion, no Guard at all. Could the Brass and Percussion playing allow audiences to guess the Theme ? Doubtful,( although the opener might give some in the audience a clue that are familar with some Music.) But everyone in the audience gets the Theme of " Spartacus " from the Guard. So of course modern day Drum Corps its primarily a VISUAL medium now, where the Visual and Guard are weighted more heavily in the scores and placements, and where the all important Theme is predominently conveyed by the Guard and the Visual and where the top placing Corps mostly separate themselves from the rest of the pack.. It's like you have a basic understanding of how logic works. And then you apply it to the most ludicrous situations. I completely agree that visual is an absolutely necessary component. In fact, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you in that regard. But your logic leaves me scratching my head. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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