BRASSO Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Why is it that each corps' caption score in today's DCI scoring system is mostly within a couple ordinals of one another? Isn't it possible that a corps could have the best guard, a good percussion section, and just an ok hornline? Logic would think so. But when has recent DCI judging ever made sense when scores across sections of Corps were so wide and disparate ? For historical context, we know of a Corps that finished 1st in Percussion ( both percussion judges too ) at DCI Championship Prelims in the late 70's, but never got to perform on Finals Night as their Corps overall combined score kept them out of the Top 12. They finished 15th. Despite winning Percussion, they were 24th in marching with one M& M judge and 22nd with the other M& M judge ). Such stark differences of over 20 placement positions among the sections of a corps in placement and scores would be unheard of today... ...for whatever reason. Edited May 17, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 And Float was the instructor wasnt he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 And Float was the instructor wasnt he? I believe so, flammaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Such stark differences of over 20 placement positions among the sections of a corps in placement and scores would be unheard of today... ...for whatever reason. I'd have to think that the scoring system has something to do with it? With the tick system, you could play great but make tons of mistakes in M&M, and the scores would be completely disparate. It seems like in the current scoring system that the captions are a bit more tied together, where poor marching pulls down the GE score, and you don't play as well if you're marching poorly, so everything gets dragged down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) I'd have to think that the scoring system has something to do with it? With the tick system, you could play great but make tons of mistakes in M&M, and the scores would be completely disparate. It seems like in the current scoring system that the captions are a bit more tied together, where poor marching pulls down the GE score, and you don't play as well if you're marching poorly, so everything gets dragged down. Who knows. I'll only add that the Percussion lines in the late 70's did very little maneuvering on the field compared with the Brass and Guard at that time ((and way less when compared with today's field Percussion lines do too ). I don't think we can say that the De La Salle Oakland Crusaders Drum Line were much worse in their marching than 20-23 other Corps in Prelims while they simultaneously played their Drums better than all the other 45 drumlines in competition with them in this '77 Championships Prelims competition. Then again, if you are asking me to explain scoring and placements in DCI, whether it was under the tick system utilizred BITD, or the build up system of today, its like asking me to explain how the Egyptians found and then dragged all that stone hundreds of miles across the open desert to build their massive pyramids. I could try and explain it to you, but in the end, it'll probably make no logical sense to either one of us and most likely only give us both a headache. Edited May 18, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 its like asking me to explain how the Egyptians found and then dragged all that stone hundreds of miles across the open desert to build their massive pyramids. I could try and explain it to you, but in the end, it'll probably make no logical sense to either one of us and most likely only give us both a headache. Pulleys, wet sand, and a whole lot of Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I believe that we should only acknowledge the specific aspect of a corps that is innovative. Is it the arranging or is it the drill? Is it the guard that is being innovative, or is it the percussion section? This is not the same thing as ragging on the rest of the corps, it's just acknowledging what is "innovative". I can see how some people would argue for acknowledging the entire corps for innovation, and when each section of the corps is simultaneously doing something innovative, I'm all for that. ...otherwise, I don't agree. And it's just the way that I parse information. It's also occurs to me that other people might not agree with me, and that they'll say that it takes every section working together to create an amazing moment of innovation. I've read and heard comments here and all over that say things like: XYZ's brass is amazing, but their percussion is terrible, so they can't win music. Another one of the many things I've read or heard over the years is "oh they have a kick ### percussion section that could win DCI if only the rest of their corps was in the top 5." The other one that I've heard in the past is "their guard is so amazing that it's raising their visual scores and keeping them in the top 12". It's just amazing to me that it seems that so many can not seem to separate an innovative section from a corps and recognize it for what it is. Why is it that each corps' caption score in today's DCI scoring system is mostly within a couple ordinals of one another? Isn't it possible that a corps could have the best guard, a good percussion section, and just an ok hornline? Well, Crown won the title with a 6th place percussion section just this year. In 2010 Regiment came in 6th, but their caption scores ranged from 9th to 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Pulleys, wet sand, and a whole lot of Jews. Sounds like a bar mitzvah I just attended. Edited May 18, 2014 by quietcity 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Well, Crown won the title with a 6th place percussion section just this year. In 2010 Regiment came in 6th, but their caption scores ranged from 9th to 1st. I do that too. I like to list the exceptions to the rule that other people post so we can have a discussion, so good job! I know, but Crown was the exception to the rule last year. Regiment was the exception to the rule in 2010. Go back further, and there used to be more than that each year where my point is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I believe that we should only acknowledge the specific aspect of a corps that is innovative. Is it the arranging or is it the drill? Is it the guard that is being innovative, or is it the percussion section? This is not the same thing as ragging on the rest of the corps, it's just acknowledging what is "innovative". I can see how some people would argue for acknowledging the entire corps for innovation, and when each section of the corps is simultaneously doing something innovative, I'm all for that. ...otherwise, I don't agree. And it's just the way that I parse information. It's also occurs to me that other people might not agree with me, and that they'll say that it takes every section working together to create an amazing moment of innovation. I've read and heard comments here and all over that say things like: XYZ's brass is amazing, but their percussion is terrible, so they can't win music. Another one of the many things I've read or heard over the years is "oh they have a kick ### percussion section that could win DCI if only the rest of their corps was in the top 5." The other one that I've heard in the past is "their guard is so amazing that it's raising their visual scores and keeping them in the top 12". It's just amazing to me that it seems that so many can not seem to separate an innovative section from a corps and recognize it for what it is. Why is it that each corps' caption score in today's DCI scoring system is mostly within a couple ordinals of one another? Isn't it possible that a corps could have the best guard, a good percussion section, and just an ok hornline? well......maybe. of the performance captions, one will have the balls to put in spreads....percussion. that's what kept it so close for Crown last year. Sure, upstairs it was great. but the drum guys had no issue all year long having spread between the top and Crown. And that kind of spread with the averages can make a difference. Ask BD in 08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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