chaddyt Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Innovative in drum corps speak means well scoring, popular with the judges not so popular with the crowd see also; you don’t understand our art Cadets 2011 and Crown 2013 are two winning corps whose shows were pretty well liked, though, IMO not particularly innovative save for their respective uniforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 BD is no doubt innovative, but what motivation is driving their innovation? Is it an effort to entertain the audience, or to win contests, or to push the boundaries of the art? I suspect mostly the latter, and some of the middle. BD's innovations do not seem designed to elicit engagement from the crowd. They have basically taken the stance of modern art that is more intellectual but appeals to only a tiny fraction of people. I am not necessarily criticizing this direction, mind you. In fact, I applaud their desire to elevate the art as much as they can. I just wonder when BD will decide to give up the pretense of trying to please a crowd, and follow the example Star of Indiana /Blast direction. I sense a transmigration in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) I've seen several posts that state this, or similar. It seems undeniable to me that if several corps are trying to emulate BD's style, even if it's "take BD show design style and spin it our own unique way," then BD is indeed innovative: they inspire many others from a design standpoint. Most corps don't (and can't) achieve the level of success BD has, but I would say that BD's style has influenced Crown over the last several seasons: in ways that benefit ALL of us. And I realize that was a totally cliche response concerning BD. But it's cliche because it's true. If we are going off of the dictionary definition of innovative, they are. Edited May 5, 2014 by DrumManTx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) I think one of the reasons that BD is considered innovative is masterful use of harmony in their shows. I mean, they're not just competent, or good, they're masterful. The arrangers know these complex and modern harmonic structures/ chords so well, and their voice leading is unmatched. You know that I'm going to give HOF Wayne Downey most of the credit, but I honestly don't know who currently gives their shows this harmonic excellence. BD has always been THE corps that has some funky, or really cool uses of harmony in their musical arrangements. Check out anything from the 70s, everything from the 80s, and even up until today and you'll see what I mean. Where other corps such as Star, Cadets, or Crown rely/relied upon innovative and difficult melodic lines and runs first and complex harmonies second; and other corps seems to mostly aspire to doing that; BD is at the top of their game when using complex harmonic intervals in their shows. I believe this is why BD is known more as a jazzy corps, or now a symphonic jazzy corps. We could all learn something about arranging and music theory from the arrangers at BD. Even in the years where I passionately dislike their shows, I ALWAYS appreciate and respect the level of sophistication in the harmonies of their arrangements, and how well they're done. That's where I believe that they are the most innovative through out all of their history. It's not visually, or percussively, or even guard ( which they've won soooo many times and one could argue for their guard). Who are their peers in this regard ( Masterful Harmonics in their arrangements EVERY year)? I believe that many of the old Suncoast Sound shows compare well harmonically, maybe 84-89 ( with '85 Florida Suite and '86 Adventures in Time being standout arrangements harmonically); I believe that Robert Smith was the arranger of many of those shows. Star, especially 88-93 and Blue Knights 90-92, where Jim Prime Jr arranged the corps. Those shows were melodically and harmonically "right there" with BD. Check out Star's fanfare from Belshazzar's Feast from 1990. That's some pretty complex harmonic arranging. Check out Blue Knight's 90 opener Chichester Psalms and their arrangement of Bernstein's Mass; it's a BK show that barely missed finals. Love, love love it! I feel that Prime's focus was more on the melodic line and the middle voices, but then he would have these very tasty long chords through the shows that I just love, or some cool low brass chord riff in several shows that would just blow me away and made me love his harmonic arranging tendencies. He's my favorite Drum Corps arranger, period. Crown since Klesch got on board. It's quite obvious that Klesch is one of the best arrangers around. Cadets 83-89. Again, that would be Jim Prime Jr, Robert Smith (Les Miserable's show), and Klesch. Cavaliers 2000-2007, so that would be Richard Saucedo. Despite what anyone thinks about the excitement level of his arrangements, his harmonic arranging was wonderful and masterful. Maybe not your cup of tea, but you cannot deny the talent. Other great DCI arrangers that aren't on the list above are probably more melodic-centric or balanced; I'd probably put Klesch more on the melodic side, but he's had some masterwork arrangements that were harmonically innovative as well, so I had to put him on the list above too. No disrespect to Wren (Phantom) or Shaw (Phantom, and recently SCV) ( Whose "Starry Night" arrangements had some tasty harmonic moments); or our beloved DCP poster Chuck Naffier who is a masterful arranger as well. Naffier is a very balanced arranger and he does what he does at a high level as well. Jay Bocook of Cadets fame is ALSO a master arranger, but he is the definition of a balance and controled arranger; he doesn't necessarily favor harmonic complexity over melodic complexity and he can do both equally well, imho. He's is so versatile, and I remember his marching band arrangements from back in the day before he started working with the Cadets. I have a LOT of respect for his abilities and he just seems like a very cool guy! The thing is that the arranging staff at BD are masterful EVERY year in their harmonic language ( or harmonic staging), and they've been doing it forever. It's just their style, so I believe that they are the most innovative at it. I mean, listen back to BD '84. Complex harmonies everywhere when other corps were definitely more into melodic content in their shows! Karn Evil 9 and La Fiesta are just insane. Then in '85 they took it all to another level. '88 "Happy Days are Here Again" was magic harmonically ( and melodically too, but listen to the structure of those chords), 90 Tommy was very harmonically complex as well. Very smart arranging and everything just fit together so well in that show. The '91 Conversations in Jazz show was way out there for the time, and those very bizarre intervals were certainly hard for the crowd to "get", but I LOVED it! You can pretty much say that their harmonies are tough every year of the 90s compared to their peers. In the 2000s, the Methods of Madness (2000) show certainly had some innovative harmonic moments. Awayday Blue (2001) the next year was an innovative harmonic journey with a different mood... Just incredible that they can go from "Crazy" one year to "Carefree, footloose, and free" the next and still have those Blue Devils harmonies and that Blue Devil sound! Jumping ahead several years and we arrive to hear the angry 2007 Winged Victory BD show, where the whole show was simply a harmonic ride, and very different than all of their competitors that year. The 2010 Through a Glass, Darkly, and 2012 Cabaret Voltaire had some more Bird and Bela in Bb influences and continued the harmonic innovation that this corps has ALWAYS shown. Last year's Rite of Spring show continued this very long trend, and honestly, any show utilizing music from the Rite of Spring is going to be harmonically complex. BD did a great job of changing the harmonics to work best for them. This, to me, is BD's signature attribute that makes them innovators in drum corps more than any other corps. I could list something in their shows for every year, where I believe that they were a harmonic innovator, where as with other corps, they have moments in their history, but they do not have moments in every show. Edited May 6, 2014 by jjeffeory 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Do you know who BD learned all the innovative stuff from? SCV! Look at where the staff came from. Before that it was Troopers and I'm sure someplace else too but that is as far as I know of. It was handed down in the form of the great staff members like Wayne Downy, Jack Meehan, Frank Dorrite, Pete Emmons, Jay Murphy, TJ Douchette etc. Not to forget the great staff who grew up in BD like Rick Odello and his son's John Meehan and Dave Gibbs and Scott johnson. It really boils down to a group of people who are open minded and very interested in giving a great product every year. They are really nice people who care about what they do and so are the people at SCV. I can't say about other corps as that is all I know. It's not a matter of "oh we are better than you" or anything like that. It comes down to really loving what they get to see out there on the field and if people like it great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Look up some of the antonyms for "innovative": "old-fashioned" "customary" "traditional" "uncreative" "unimaginative" I wouldn't dream of applying any of these to the Blue Devils. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 BD is no doubt innovative, but what motivation is driving their innovation? Is it an effort to entertain the audience, or to win contests, or to push the boundaries of the art? I suspect mostly the latter, and some of the middle. BD's innovations do not seem designed to elicit engagement from the crowd. They have basically taken the stance of modern art that is more intellectual but appeals to only a tiny fraction of people. I am not necessarily criticizing this direction, mind you. In fact, I applaud their desire to elevate the art as much as they can. I just wonder when BD will decide to give up the pretense of trying to please a crowd, and follow the example Star of Indiana /Blast direction. I sense a transmigration in the works. I appreciate where you're coming from, but to be honest, I am incredibly pleased as a spectator with the direction they have gone as of late visually and musically, and I know quite a few others that are as well. Now granted, I was at finals last year with my older brother and my father. My brother and I enjoyed BD immensely the past few years, and my dad isn't so into it. So I guess if I take a poll of my family, 2 out of 3 audience members like them. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I appreciate where you're coming from, but to be honest, I am incredibly pleased as a spectator with the direction they have gone as of late visually and musically, and I know quite a few others that are as well. Now granted, I was at finals last year with my older brother and my father. My brother and I enjoyed BD immensely the past few years, and my dad isn't so into it. So I guess if I take a poll of my family, 2 out of 3 audience members like them. Just a thought. My reaction to BD is hard to describe. I can't say I enjoy them at an emotional level, the way I enjoy SCV or Crown or Cavies. But I AM fascinated by the things they do, and like others here, I find that repeated viewings of a BD show tends to reveal new layers of complexity and intrigue. But the reality is, I just don't have the time to watch one BD show repeatedly, to make sure I glean all the goodness out of it. I like my drum corps more immediately accessible. Call me shallow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDA16 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Is fascination not an emotion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 My reaction to BD is hard to describe. I can't say I enjoy them at an emotional level, the way I enjoy SCV or Crown or Cavies. But I AM fascinated by the things they do, and like others here, I find that repeated viewings of a BD show tends to reveal new layers of complexity and intrigue. But the reality is, I just don't have the time to watch one BD show repeatedly, to make sure I glean all the goodness out of it. I like my drum corps more immediately accessible. Call me shallow.... Great post. At the end of the day, it's just kids running around on a football field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.