BRASSO Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) I sense that recently, performance is becoming a bit more important than a few years back. You don't need to playing 10 minutes of runs, just play a run and perfectly, we will acknowledge and credit you. The corps that win are not performing the most difficult shows, but they are per horsing cohesive smart designs extremely well. Much less running and gunning than 2-3 years ago. When DCI Consultant Michael Cesario spoke to the judges, and was involved in the tweaking of the captions ,and how the shows are to be judged, he never said a wit about performance execution as a reminder to the judges in their captions that have carry over evaluation to multiple captions, particularly GE captions for example. He specifically requested the judges to look more holistically, not micro manage their captions. He talked more about GE in the realm of " how compelling was the show ? "... NOT how clean. polished, executed, it was to generate first rate " General Effect ". Ceasario is not marinated in performance execution in his background, nor experience, nor in his training at all. He's a showman. Its all about " The Show ". I see LOTS of performance execution errors on Finals Night, including the top Corps, and even the ultimate winner. ( shows are undeniably far more difficult than BITD to perform and execute) Things like spacing, cover, distance. feet, positioning, and dozens of other things have quite visible errors. But its the Show Design, and increasingly the Guards that primarily drive the theme home, and selling that " compelling show " to the judges.... just as Cesario envisioned. Edited July 11, 2014 by BRASSO 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I remember BITD the classic answer from a judge when challenged was " I call it the way I see it" I had a judge try that one on me a few years ago, after I raked him over the coals you can bet he never said it again...lol Not all judges are trustworthy but for sure made to be accountable if someone really wants to challenge them I think you meant though " subjective" didnt you? yea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 When DCI Consultant Michael Cesario spoke to the judges, and was involved in the tweaking of the captions ,and how the shows are to be judged, he never said a wit about performance execution as a reminder to the judges in their captions that have carry over evaluation to multiple captions, particularly GE captions for example. He specifically requested the judges to look more holistically, not micro manage their captions. He talked more about GE in the realm of " how compelling was the show ? "... NOT how clean. polished, executed, it was to generate first rate " General Effect ". Ceasario is not marinated in performance execution in his background, nor experience, nor in his training at all. He's a showman. Its all about " The Show ". I see LOTS of performance execution errors on Finals Night, including the top Corps, and even the ultimate winner. ( shows are undeniably far more difficult than BITD to perform and execute) Things like spacing, cover, distance. feet, positioning, and dozens of other things have quite visible errors. But its the Show Design, and increasingly the Guards that primarily drive the theme home, and selling that " compelling show " to the judges.... just as Cesario envisioned. Yea I am seeing that too. I can name two corps that I think are being subjected to that right now. Way cleaner and playing much harder music but are not being scored very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 When I saw DCI finals live in 2010 (since 1983) I knew what had changed then. My opinion. The second place corps performed better than the first place corps that night by design in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackroberts Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Yes, he's more of a big-picture guy, but that's just fine! Let the corps themselves worry about the details! If they're compelling AND execute on a high level, then good for them! DCI, for the vast majority of audiences, is about entertainment. They buy tickets because they want to be entertained. That comes first. That's the big picture. But I do agree, more emphasis needs to be placed on execution. Just don't crucify him for doing what he's good at (and for what he's there to do, because he's DCI's Artistic Director. He's a designer.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Yea I am seeing that too. I can name two corps that I think are being subjected to that right now. Way cleaner and playing much harder music but are not being scored very high. to be at the very top. you need to have both elements. Now of course one can debate if a top corps has it or not. Edited July 11, 2014 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) after staying out of the cesspool for a long while, I must say the Brasso speaks for me 89.7 % of the time if I judge by the tic system of debate Opps, look like I've got my work cut out for me to get that extra 10.30 %, for 100% agreement on things, The Other Mike ( haha!).. thanks for the props. ( did I just say thanks for the " props ? "... no, no, no, n.... ) Edited July 11, 2014 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 DCI now is essentially about Adults judging Adults. Show Design is valued significantly higher now with the build up reward system we now have on the current judging sheets. While its true that a Corps can not place high within their pecking order in their placement level without performance execution at least as good as their pecking order peers, in the end ,it is the Adults created Show Design, particularly on the Visual and Guard side that makes all the the difference in the world. A Corps in a performance caption ( such as Brass, Percussion ) can finish 6th and still win a DCI Title. It is the performers that are judged on the performance. But it is the adults that are judged on the Show Design... and its the Show Design captions that count for the most reward points to be had now. For one example ( of many ) it is impossible under the current sheets for a Corps to finish 6th in a Design caption ( like GE Vis.,, Visual Anal, etc ) and win a Title, even if they won Brass and Percussion. But in a performance caption like percussion execution, a title can be won if its a 6th place in performance execution. The Cavs finished 2nd, 3rd, in 2010, 2011, but 8th in 2012. The 2012 Cavs marcher talent was every bit as good in 2012 as it was in 2010, 20111, and they worked just as hard, just as smart, and played their instruments and marched about as well as the 2010, 2011 Cavs. But the Show Design is what had them about to suffer severe placement slide even before they put their uniforms on for the first performance of 2012, and have them about to sink like a stone that year...... the Bluecoats of last year were no less talented in their marching, instrument playing than this year's Bluecoats. Thats a fallacy if we believe this. What has catapulted the Bluecoats this year is the Adults... the Show Design. To paraphase Democrat Consultant, James Carville,( with a new twist )... 'its the Show Design, Stupid !! " Corps finished 5th, 6th or lower and still won DCI over 30 years ago. Heck, SCV was tied for 5th in Marching and won the 71 VFW Nationals. The show design is irrelevant if the performers do not perform their show well to maximize what the designers create. That has never changed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 When I saw DCI finals live in 2010 (since 1983) I knew what had changed then. My opinion. The second place corps performed better than the first place corps that night by design in 2010. Well, except that outside of percussion, where the winner was 4th, the 2nd place corps scored under the winner in all of the performance captions, even finishing 4th themselves in Music ensemble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) The show design is irrelevant if the performers do not perform their show well to maximize what the designers create. The performers can play their music on their instruments well, and march well, but they will suffer bigtime placement slide if the adult created Show Design is a lemon compared with others within their DCI placement pecking order. Their performance and execution is irrelevant if the Show Design isn't up to the others within their mix. The Cavs of 2012 were going to suffer bigtime placement slide in 2012 ( 8th )even though the MM's worked hard, worked smart, performed and executed as well as the Cavs of 2010, 2011 ( 2nd, 3rd ). That Cavs Corps of 2012 had no less overall Corps marcher members ( MM ) talent as the 2 immediately preceding years. Its silly to believe otherwise. Fast forward to today, and the 2014 Bluecoats overall MM talent regarding performance and execution abilities is no more appreciably talented on the whole than their 2013 Bluecoats Corps, imo. What has them positioned to move from 6th last season to contention for the title this season however is one thing that trumps MM's performance execution on the current judging sheets.... Show Design. One needs MM performance execution AND Show Design to do well in DCI. Thats of course, undeniably true( and noone here has said otherwise .) But if you can only have one thats better and stonger than the other, its a no brainer... have a strong Show Design.... as thats where you'll find your most points to be had under the current judging sheets to move up, and thats adult created and driven, not MM driven. Edited July 11, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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