Best non-winners.....2nd, 3rd, and 4th

[Agogobell28]

1987 SCV should have tied with Garfield. Their brass line was better even though their visual book wasn't very good compared to Garfield.

1988 SCV should have tied with Madison. They really should have.

Star 1990 should have won. Cadets were incredibly good, but Star's brass line was MONSTROUS.

Also, why did SCV 1990 not place higher? I don't get it! Carmen's musical scores should have been better - the brass line was amazing (not as good as Star, but still amazing). Was it their visual that did them in?

[jjeffeory]

1987 SCV should have tied with Garfield. Their brass line was better even though their visual book wasn't very good compared to Garfield.

1988 SCV should have tied with Madison. They really should have.

Star 1990 should have won. Cadets were incredibly good, but Star's brass line was MONSTROUS.

Also, why did SCV 1990 not place higher? I don't get it! Carmen's musical scores should have been better - the brass line was amazing (not as good as Star, but still amazing). Was it their visual that did them in?

Well, I marched in '90; I don't think Star should have won that year. That was my all time favorite show too.

Musically, yes Star was the best. Visually, no. GE- Pretty darned good. Guard, no, Percussion, no.

SCV was VERY rough musically first part of the year and not quite there visually. I don't know why they dropped. That year Any of the top 5 corps could have won it, and they all beat each other at major regionals. I know when we first beat Phantom and Blue Devils ( who were BOTH undefeated at that time)at our second Whitewater show around July 28th, after being beating by Phantom and Star all of first tour and at DCM, I knew it was going to be a competitive year... I also knew that Star's drill was "different", and incredibly dirty...

So just my opinion.

Edited September 24, 2014 by jjeffeory

[DrumManTx]

Well, I marched in '90; I don't think Star should have won that year. That was my all time favorite show too.

Musically, yes Star was the best. Visually, no. GE- Pretty darned good. Guard, no, Percussion, no.

SCV was VERY rough musically first part of the year and not quite there visually. I don't know why they dropped. That year Any of the top 5 corps could have won it, and they all beat each other at major regionals. I know when we first beat Phantom and Blue Devils ( who were BOTH undefeated at that time)at our second Whitewater show around July 28th, after being beating by Phantom and Star all of first tour and at DCM, I knew it was going to be a competitive year... I also knew that Star's drill was "different", and incredibly dirty...

So just my opinion.

Agree on Star 90 behind dirty visually, but oh my God I could watch it all day long, the closing 2 minutes visually have my jaw on the floor every time. Super fun to watch, some of my favorite stuff from Zingali.

[Tim K]

My guess, probably nothing. Zingali was offered money that 27th couldn't match, and so once he went to the highest bidder for his drill design services, the handwriting was on the wall for all intents and purposes for the 27th Lancers after that.

Not quite the story I recall. There was a major defection to Garfield from 27th after 1981, both staff and marching members. My recollection is that someone on staff was fired for what we would call verbal abuse today as well as insubordination, I don't know who and if it was not George Zingali, Jim Wedge, or Peggy Twiggs, I'm not sure the name would mean anything to me. In protest many left the corps. While this may have been gossip, people who are pretty reliable claim Zingali did all he could with 27th, there were some artistic differences, and Garfield offered him more artistic freedom. Money was not mentioned, but remember Cadets have never been rolling in the dough and they have almost gone bankrupt on a few occasions, so they may not have had funds to give him a substantial raise.

However, I do think if two situations happened, the first being that Boston Crusaders made finals in 78 which most people expected, they would have ascended in the following years. 27th would have fought hard to make sure they were the dominant corps, and if they had won in 1980, the heated rivalry between these two corps would have escalated, and recruitment and dollars would have followed. Cadets who were struggling would have been the corps that was history, and George Hopkins would be leading another corps to a glorious heritage. So I think if 27th has won in 1980, the major change would quite possibly been no Cadets.

[Ghost]

However, I do think if two situations happened, the first being that Boston Crusaders made finals in 78 which most people expected, they would have ascended in the following years. 27th would have fought hard to make sure they were the dominant corps, and if they had won in 1980, the heated rivalry between these two corps would have escalated, and recruitment and dollars would have followed. Cadets who were struggling would have been the corps that was history, and George Hopkins would be leading another corps to a glorious heritage. So I think if 27th has won in 1980, the major change would quite possibly been no Cadets.

Interesting version.

[Tim K]

Let's go in reverse order because I can think

1982 - BD (but I really enjoyed Cadets

I have no comment on the rest of the years because I don't know how to judge them based on the criteria of the day.

I can finish at least some of it:

1981: we do not have finals available and our recorded shows are from DCI Midwest, but Madison and 27th had shows with more fire in 1981 than SCV and BD and both were cleaner during the season.

1980: should have been 27th.

1979: should have been PR over BD

1978: PR first, BD second, SCV third.

1977 BD did deserve it.

1976: BD no question.

1975: Madison had passion, even if it wasn't entirely clean, which at that time could be deadly, so first demonstrates their power. SCV was good, but not better than Madison.

1974: we don't have good footage, and if finals were broadcast, it would have been past my bedtime!

[xandandl]

"My recollection is that someone on staff was fired for what we would call verbal abuse today as well as insubordination,"

hmm, my remembrance is that someone, going into August was fired for pushing/punching or slapping a 27 kid in the line during rehearsal. The 27 director had no choice but to fire the person who had previously been spoken to about temper flares and teaching style. The director was a professional educator of many years tenure outside of drum corps..

Dr. Richard Santo, the Garfield director before Hopkins, is the one who actually hired Zingali that August and Zingali finished the last two weeks of tour with Garfield. Hopkins was but a drum instructor then who had been challenged by Santo to fill the line. At the end of the season, Dr. Santo handed the corps over to Hopkins, resigned and made Hopkins director. Then Zingali started writing the Cadets' drill and Sylvester and Twiggs soon followed to Garfield, with Hannum replacing Hopkins with the drumline; Hopkins and Hannum had marched together at Crossmen and had been college roommates at West Chester State. The rest as they say is history.

Edited September 25, 2014 by xandandl

[Nachfolger Christi]

I always wondered as well why 1990 SCV did not do better.

[Tim K]

"My recollection is that someone on staff was fired for what we would call verbal abuse today as well as insubordination,"

hmm, my remembrance is that someone, going into August was fired for pushing/punching or slapping a 27 kid in the line during rehearsal. The 27 director had no choice but to fire the person who had previously been spoken to about temper flares and teaching style. The director was a professional educator of many years tenure outside of drum corps..

Dr. Richard Santo, the Garfield director before Hopkins, is the one who actually hired Zingali that August and Zingali finished the last two weeks of tour with Garfield. Hopkins was but a drum instructor then who had been challenged by Hopkins to fill the line. At the end of the season, Dr. Santo handed the corps over to Hopkins, resigned and made Hopkins director. Then Zingali started writing the Cadets' drill and Sylvester and Twiggs soon followed to Garfield, with Hannum replacing Hopkins with the drumline; Hopkins and Hannum had marched together at Crossmen and had been college roommates at West Chester State. The rest as they say is history.

The story you report was mentioned in a thread a few years back, but there were disputes in the physical assaulting but no disputes about the language, which is why my version is at best watered down. According to some reports, George B claimed firing this person was the one of the most difficult decisions he made but no one mistreated his kids. I did know George Hopkins was not yet director of Garfield, but I had forgotten George Z. left in August. In the pre-internet social media days I got most of my reports after the season ended, like most people. I'm assuming part of the decision could have been over changing the "Spitfire" ending with "Danny Boy." As much as fans, including your's truly loved "Danny Boy" it did not fit the show as well as "Spitfire" I do recall a person I went to college with telling me marching members were divided about the change, though no one was divided in the stands at CYO Nationals where I believe the 1981 "Danny Boy" ending had it's debut. The crowd went wild.

[dcsnare93]

Years I probably would have picked a different corps...

1987 SCV

1999 SCV: No tie. This is based purely on emotion, as BD was the cleaner corps, but SCV had the most energetic finals performance I've seen to this day.

2003 Cavies

2008 BD: I was happy for Phantom, and was cheering just as loud as everyone else, but it was by the skin of their teeth for sure.