xandandl Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) I have to agree with Jeff Ream and Perc that almost never does a well trained member experience an injury due to a DCI judge, although I have seen grounded horns, guard equipment, and props suffer when the judge is going backward. Most often injuries seem to occur not at the major contests per se but on the first night after the corps has made significant visual changes of which the judge is unaware and the MMs may not be yet fully confident. Today's protocols make the corps staff responsible to notify the chief judge of the contest before the show commences. The beauty of DCI judging is that almost never does a major contest panel include a judge who has not seen the corps previously in the season, particularly those corps who placed in the top 17 the year before. Corps want judges who know the intricacies of the show (for credit as well as for safety.) Edited January 8, 2016 by xandandl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) I read through the thread before hearing Dan Potter's discussion of the proposals with Michael Cesario on DCI's FieldPass and then re-read thread after hearing and before I posted. I suspect that some of the posters did not listen to the twenty minute discussion first. I am amazed that there has been no mention in the thread of several statements Cesario makes as conclusions: -Task Force has terminated the discussion of woodwinds in DCI shows: "No Big Piccolos...." (Will some DCPers be hosting a celebratory banquet???) -Possible Non-DCI Judging commentaries w/o any scoring at perhaps San Antonio Regional to be given by Hall of Fame level guests such as college band directors, celebrity, etc. These would be available to the judging community and to each corps before changes are written for Finals. [Although not specified. I am presuming that this would be done with a parallel panel of judges giving the usual scoring and tapes.] -Discussion of whether to do away with Recaps. (What will DCPers do?) or do away with them during "First Tour:" Do Recaps prescript scoring (slotting)??? Will half point scoring help (0.5)??? Edited January 8, 2016 by xandandl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Crucial detail. As a percussionist who has been on the front sideline for many marching band shows in LoS and has sat front row for drum corps in LoS, drum judges will not get a read on battery in there excepting a wholesale change in percussion drill approach. Granted, that is just LoS. I can't vouch for all of the indoor venues. But it also happens to be the entirety of finals week. it's any indoor stadium. it can be hard enough in an open air venue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Not only that, but the judge did his homework and seemingly had a good understanding of the corps' drill (not just battery) in order to maneuver in & out of forms in order to get up close & personal enough to get a good read of the drum line, while also not interfering with members' performance. Well-trained judges w/experience are rarely a problem Isn't that Prosperie? It was like a ballet. He knew exactly where to be to read the tough spots and not get killed or be in the way - a masterful performance by a highly-trained judge. His reward - OUR reward - was his desire and work to get to know the show to make sure. To my eye, he was a masterful dodger who knew where he needed to be but reacted to get there. Highly skilled, yelling into the tape "GREAT JOB" at the ONE, single moment that the line needed to know they nailed it... Let them be judges. I surely don't want to speak for him, but I'd bet Jeff Prosperie would hate to have to judge from the sidelines. WVU80 and I have disagreed on this before, and I repeat what others here now say as well: Where's the evidence that this is a problem that needs fixed? In the face of such evidence of opinion among drummers, about drummers, and the lack of evidence of a disaster ("criminal" or otherwise) caused by field percussion judges, your guarantee of perfection in avoiding serious accidents is only delivering what we already have. Leaving it as it is = no accidents and great drum reads (<--- My way) Doing it your way = no accidents and crappy drum reads My way is better. I know you will find this hard to believe, but having a "little" accident once in a great while is worth having to get a great drumline read from the field judge. We can each define "little", but I'm thinking an occasional sprained ankle or busted lip. Yup. I'd take that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 It is not that simple. For one thing, many aspects of the performance are ordinarily noticeable from a distance, but not if you put 20,000 people between yourself and the corps. Of course, some things are not as easily perceived from far away, as clarity of sound dissipates over distance. Judging from the sideline is no picnic, especially nowadays with those pit speakers in your face. Frankly, I am surprised anyone is questioning whether field access is necessary for best assessment of a percussion battery. Think about it. Under current rules, drum judges can go wherever they choose... and they choose to spend much of their time on the field, tracking the battery in the drill. Why would they do that if they could evaluate just as well from the sideline, or the stands? Well said, and yet I still can't help wondering if these fine details really matter. It's like the filmmaker who insisted that his actors be provided with appropriately monogrammed undergarments that would never be seen by the camera. The answer, of course, is that they matter if the corps decide they matter, but it seems that some of the same people who have denigrated the aesthetic preferences of designers and judges in favor of the audience's tastes are now defending the need for corps to perform to a degree that is imperceptible to the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well said, and yet I still can't help wondering if these fine details really matter. It's like the filmmaker who insisted that his actors be provided with appropriately monogrammed undergarments that would never be seen by the camera. The answer, of course, is that they matter if the corps decide they matter, but it seems that some of the same people who have denigrated the aesthetic preferences of designers and judges in favor of the audience's tastes are now defending the need for corps to perform to a degree that is imperceptible to the audience. An apt expression considering your background, but misapplied IMO. The distinction from your example is that the actor's underwear is not, in fact, seen by his audience but the drumline "details" you reference are, indeed, the performance in and of themselves. Would the actor's performance be impacted negatively if he wore tighty-whities? Would a snare drummer's performance be impacted by the arranger writing straight, alternating strokes instead of noting paradiddle sticking? The very fact that there is a field judge is the single greatest contributor to the remarkable advancement in the technical playing quality of today's average drumline MM. The fastest way to "dumb down" future drumlines is to take the field judge away. Is "dumbed down" what paying students deserve? Drum corps may not exist for designers, and it may not exist for the audience, but it most certainly exists for the paying performers. If the arrangers don't "write up" to challenge the players ability then it will become boring and not worth the cost of tour fees. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd-student-TTU Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 An apt expression considering your background, but misapplied IMO. The distinction from your example is that the actor's underwear is not, in fact, seen by his audience but the drumline "details" you reference are, indeed, the performance in and of themselves. Would the actor's performance be impacted negatively if he wore tighty-whities? Would a snare drummer's performance be impacted by the arranger writing straight, alternating strokes instead of noting paradiddle sticking? The very fact that there is a field judge is the single greatest contributor to the remarkable advancement in the technical playing quality of today's average drumline MM. The fastest way to "dumb down" future drumlines is to take the field judge away. Is "dumbed down" what paying students deserve? Drum corps may not exist for designers, and it may not exist for the audience, but it most certainly exists for the paying performers. If the arrangers don't "write up" to challenge the players ability then it will become boring and not worth the cost of tour fees. Slippery slope much? You don't think the corps members would notice? You think the percussion designers would water things down and lower their reputations? I don't know what you're cooking, but I ain't eating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Slippery slope much? You don't think the corps members would notice? You think the percussion designers would water things down and lower their reputations? I don't know what you're cooking, but I ain't eating it. Not following your thought totally, but I'm SURE percussion designers would water down their books if there were no field judge, absolutely. No question. And I'm SURE the corps members would notice and, in fact, become bored, then begin to question the validity of paying tour fees for writing style they get in HS or college band. Cooking? Italian for me. Pasta. EVOO. Tomatoes and basil. That's all I'm cooking. Edited January 9, 2016 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Not following your thought totally, but I'm SURE percussion designers would water down their books if there were no field judge, absolutely. No question. And I'm SURE the cops members would notice and, in fact, become bored, then begin to question the validity of paying tour fees for writing style they get in HS or college band. Cooking? Italian for me. Pasta. EVOO. Tomatoes and basil. That's all I'm cooking I'm not so sure about that. I by no means am a percussionist BUT I do know designers, very well. YES we all write to sheets and judging but also to abilities and challenge members but we also write to trends, challenges, keeping up with the jones's so to speak, hope to design something new and being the best. Often some do this to a fault, not considering talent. Some believe this is different for percussion but I do remember the same arguments for brass and even visual field judges and the need to have judges all over the place verses in the stands. Edited January 9, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Not following your thought totally, but I'm SURE percussion designers would water down their books if there were no field judge, absolutely. No question. And I'm SURE the cops members would notice and, in fact, become bored, then begin to question the validity of paying tour fees for writing style they get in HS or college band. Cooking? Italian for me. Pasta. EVOO. Tomatoes and basil. That's all I'm cooking. And WGI keeps getting bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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