Shewhois Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Their ending might/probably will be in the show after tonight's. This one will likely be the last one with the abbreviated ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlenI Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, cowtown said: I’ve felt the last few years the Cadets have run out of time to clean due to making too many changes so it would have been more prudent to have a complete show out by now I'm an outsider to the activity and the organization. I just buy my tickets and send them some money every month. So I have questions about how they develop the shows over time. I was startled by the 2015 show when I saw them in Foxboro the first week of July. Seeing "10" back to back with Crown's Inferno was stark. Crown was clean, clean, clean. They just hadn't added the color and dramatic effects yet. But you really had the sense that you were seeing (pretty much) a complete product. "10" was very dirty and it was clear that parts were "placeholders." Certainly the Cadets were behind the development schedule of Crown that year. So, I wonder how an organization that's been around forever, with lots of success finds itself in that position. And now over multiple seasons. Is it staff turnover? Organizational process problems? Is it a transitional crisis of identity? I understand that this likely requires a complex answer and there are lots of reasons. And I'm not being critical. Or looking to bring out anyone who wants to bash the organization or its management. I'm thinking more from a product or organizational development perspective (which is what I do). What are the core issues? Edited July 12, 2017 by GlenI typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 hours ago, cowtown said: I’ve felt the last few years the Cadets have run out of time to clean due to making too many changes so it would have been more prudent to have a complete show out by now I think in a best of all worlds this is true. No doubt. And you are right, Cadets have had some shows that did not pan out. To me this show has done very well and will get better. I think the planning was better this year and it shows. Now, were they behind coming out of camp? I think so. Has weather hurt rehearsals and show reps? Yes. Have they perhaps made a conscious decision to work slower? Maybe. Part of that may be from having to replace some marchers due to injury. From a score/competitive standpoint, I don't think they were worried about winning anything this year. Just being competitive and getting good at this new style of show development. I just think each year is different. As I view them this year I see a better show, better design, a really excellent corps that seems to enjoy the show, and they are pretty entertaining. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 minute ago, GlenI said: So, I wonder how an organization that's been around forever, with lots of success finds itself in that position. And now over multiple seasons. Is it staff turnover? Organizational process problems? Is it a transitional crisis of identity? I understand that this likely requires a a complex answer and there are lots of reasons. And I'm not being critical. Or looking to bring out anyone who wants to bash the organization or its management. I'm thinking more from a product or organizational development perspective (which is what I do). What are the core issues? From 2013 to 2015 their visual and design staff simply couldn't put the finishing touches on what could have been amazing shows. The music talent was there (drums and brass), but their guard was not like it was in 2011. The integration was not there, and the show themes were not well conveyed and developed so the audience could follow and really dig in. Musically, those shows are amazing. The marching talent is there. But for whatever reasons they couldn't knock one of those shows out of the park like they used to. This sort of thing happens. DCI is really hard. Designing at that level is killer difficult and requires so many people and staff. If it was easy every corps would have DCI Championships and top 3 finishes to brag about. Short of the Blue Devils nobody can brag more than the Cadets. They've had a marvelous run. I don't think we need to beat them up because the magic finally didn't work. But in a nutshell the magic had finally dried up. In 2016 they brought in some new visual folks. For many reasons I am sure, it just didn't work. In DCI, a bad show design mean you will spend all season making changes, trying new ideas, and will not have much time to clean. Even if a corps comes out of camp with a full show, if that show is bad it will cost the corps big time. Over the course of the 2016 season the visual staff was mostly let go, and at season's end they lost their brass and percussion staff to Boston. When you consider the above, frankly I am pleasantly surprised at how well they have rebounded. For many drum corps that would be a death blow. These things happen once in a blue moon, and the Cadets finally have to deal with it. So yes, things are not going to be perfect. But from my distant perspective it seems they are moving in the right direction. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 45 minutes ago, GlenI said: So, I wonder how an organization that's been around forever, with lots of success finds itself in that position. And now over multiple seasons. Is it staff turnover? Organizational process problems? Is it a transitional crisis of identity? The answer is, "yes." And also has a lot to do with who serves as program coordinator, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlenI Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: When you consider the above, frankly I am pleasantly surprised at how well they have rebounded. For many drum corps that would be a death blow. These things happen once in a blue moon, and the Cadets finally have to deal with it. So yes, things are not going to be perfect. But from my distant perspective it seems they are moving in the right direction. Thanks for the explanation. I too like the direction they're moving, although I've only seen clips of the show. I'm really pleased with the work they've done and I can't wait to see the full show live. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until Chester. I remember the On the Waterfront show from the mid-80's that didn't quite come together, but all the elements were there. And we have to put all of this in perspective when a show like the 2016 performance is panned so badly that even hard core fans don't want to talk about it. And it finished (horrors) in 6th. A lot of corps would have liked to be in that "failed" position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 hours ago, dans said: Tonight is a big night for the Cadets...they really need a jump in score. I do fear that they are already slotted and the drop in placement may continue. They won't see a big jump tonight, they are learning new content and performing the old ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, George Dixon said: They won't see a big jump tonight, they are learning new content and performing the old ending. I agree with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Compared to corps who come out with one show ready for the first contest and spend the rest of the season cleaning and occasionally layering, GH is on the record that he prefers changing later in the season. He feels the audience, judges, and occasionally mms get bored with the same old thing from ST to mid-August. He's said in past talks that introducing later changes keeps the members fresh and engaged, the audience and judges curious. My sources for this are past Hoptalks I have heard in person, some of his FB postings, and some of his band directors' clinic speeches. But many rightly claim that DCI designing has grown more complicated, with the internet the audience has grown more aware and current, and the number of judges has increased and diversified leading to several one and dones or not viewing the corps as often. Travel in DCi has also shifted and competition has become closer. Mms no longer stay as long as they did in the '80's or '90s. Now "vets" refer to folks who have one or two years under their belt not five or more. Old ways may no longer be the right ways for today's competitive environment. Time will tell with the 2017 show. Edited July 12, 2017 by xandandl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet93 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 hour ago, George Dixon said: They won't see a big jump tonight, they are learning new content and performing the old ending. Agreed! Tonight is a perform your best with the old show and "PRAY" pun intended that BAC doesn't beat you :) But it's not about placement right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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