George Dixon Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 12 minutes ago, cadet93 said: Haha George Dixon, I am trying to look for ways that the Cadets come back from these past 2 years, and I am just not seeing it right now. Maybe we are too "in it" to have a good perspective, but its not good. Seems a lot like what happened to 27th Lancers in the 80s, which I cannot remember personally, I just know from history and stories. Didn't the staff all go to Cadets, and then their placement kept dropping, and they folded? I don't see Cadets folding, but less than 2 years ago they essentially won the Ott and Sanford and this year they could get 8th place or lower in both. Pretty astounding. Those situations aren't that similar YET Cadets are a large organization which just rented out Met Life Stadium for auditions 27th was run off a kitchen table i guess we will know more by next Saturday. Last night they seemed like a lock for 7th or possibly sixth tonights score looks like 7th is risky and a corps behind them could drop them to 8th or 9th If the corps places 7th that's concerning if the corps drops below that personally I think all alarms go off and there would be changes bigger than staff to the director and coordinator level I'm not sure a director survives this regardless Perhaps a Hopkins type could survive as CEO of YEA but I would question the ability to survive as a director of the corps and in any sort of design capacity JMO as nothing but an outsider based on my experience in business and organizations in 2017 people want results and there is little patience frankly, just the nature of now. There's an inherent willingness to "try something else" if diminishing returns continue very long 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Just now, jwillis35 said: Either Cadets had a bad run tonight or the judges got a really bad read on the show. Maybe JW the judges have spoken like they have with the majority of the other corps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, cadet93 said: Haha George Dixon, I am trying to look for ways that the Cadets come back from these past 2 years, and I am just not seeing it right now. Maybe we are too "in it" to have a good perspective, but its not good. Seems a lot like what happened to 27th Lancers in the 80s, which I cannot remember personally, I just know from history and stories. Didn't the staff all go to Cadets, and then their placement kept dropping, and they folded? I don't see Cadets folding, but less than 2 years ago they essentially won the Ott and Sanford and this year they could get 8th place or lower in both. Pretty astounding. I know a lot has changed staffing wise and it is a historically low year for the cadets placement wise...but I don't think the doom and gloom talk is really necessary. Keep in mind that it is finals week and the best thing to do right now is to support and cheer on the MMs. All of the Giants except for the blue devils have fallen in recent years. The Cadets have exceptional alumni support and will be great again. Yes changes need to be made and the changes made for this season were not the answer. The Cavaliers fell quite dramitically in 2012, had a few down years, and have made themselves competitive again. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: Either Cadets had a bad run tonight or the judges got a really bad read on the show. What I hope it isn't is a case of the corps continuing to add stuff to the show. Part of me just gets the sense that the judges are going to dock them for being so dirty this late in the summer. I still like this show so much more than last year and feel the corps is overall way better than 2016, and better positioned to have a very successful 2018. But if I were to nitpick, it seems to me that over the last 2 or 3 years the Cadets have lost their ability to really put the spit and polish on a show. In recent years it seems they are more concerned with adding things to their shows than they are with cleaning. I think there is a point in the season where it is too late to be worrying about whether or not you have the perfect show. Carolina Crown does not have a perfect show, but they did the smart thing early in the season. They cleaned, cleaned, cleaned. They, like all corps, made some changes to the closer, but they have not mucked with the show like the Cadets have. Crown seems to understand that cleanliness improves all captions. With the Cadets it feels like they are throwing the kitchen sink at every aspect of their show -- even though i know they are not. But they do seem to muck around too much. The Cadets need to learn to clean again. Hopefully they will finish strong in Indy. Come next summer they need to find a better way to design their show in a manner that they can come out much cleaner than the last 2 years. The only season in quite a while they've finished strong is 2011, changes made sense and improved the product 2012 they added an effective ending but other obviously needed changes were ignored (such as pushing the ballad toward the stands and restaging the guard OR shortening the too-long opener 2013 a massively talented corps was hampered by those heavy prop boxes and they weren't fixed -- insane. And after 12 they lost a very good guard team to SCV seemingly over creative differences 2014-2016 changes were overall negative and the corps wilted in the past month 2015 a corps ready to win a championship was left with insufficient time to clean by changing the closer constantly for two straight weeks starting in OK, then went in to that timeframe in first place and exited it in a precarious third they would loose with the black out its a concerning lack of good judgement and good taste 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet93 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: I know a lot has changed staffing wise and it is a historically low year for the cadets placement wise...but I don't think the doom and gloom talk is really necessary. Keep in mind that it is finals week and the best thing to do right now is to support and cheer on the MMs. All of the Giants except for the blue devils have fallen in recent years. The Cadets have exceptional alumni support and will be great again. Yes changes need to be made and the changes made for this season were not the answer. The Cavaliers fell quite dramitically in 2012, had a few down years, and have made themselves competitive again. Doom and Gloom talk spurs action......hopefully. "Trusting the Process" definitely hasn't worked. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, George Dixon said: i guess we will know more by next Saturday. Last night they seemed like a lock for 7th or possibly sixth tonights score looks like 7th is risky and a corps behind them could drop them to 8th or 9th If the corps places 7th that's concerning if the corps drops below that personally I think all alarms go off and there would be changes bigger than staff to the director and coordinator Keep in mind that the Blue Knights are really good and the 9 seed is Phantom Regiment...who wants to make a comeback of their own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Has any corps squandered as much talent* with poor design as Cadets in the last 15 years? * aka people who are incredibly engaged, committed, and experienced, collectively working their ##### off and pushing themselves to the limit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HbRJgdZHsbc Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 1 hour ago, FTNK said: Has any corps squandered as much talent* with poor design as Cadets in the last 15 years? * aka people who are incredibly engaged, committed, and experienced, collectively working their ##### off and pushing themselves to the limit I generally agree with this sentiment. But is it poor design or poor process? Seems like 90's all the way to 2015 things were great out of the gate. Then they either won because they got it right the first time, or they shot themselves in the foot scrambling to throw everything and the kitchen sink into the program the last 2 weeks. Jeff, Jay, Colin/Tom, etc. were all great designers for the team . . . when they were allowed to do their jobs. I think we can all see things that George threw in as a last ditch effort. The tarps in 2014, the tarps this year, the tarps in 1999, the tarps in 2011 (that one worked), the uniform change in 2015, the fire trucks in 2002. This year it's all about how many crosses can exist in 13 minutes. Abandon the meaningful concept and give them icons of the concept. WAIT! Did I just accidentally make the case for how the reckless process that usually hampers the end of the season is somehow emblematic of Bernstein's struggle with authenticity in religion? Is there still time to change the program notes they send the judges? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 At this point support the kids to finish out the season strong and help push them up. They deserve that. At this point the show is what it is and the kind of discussion going on now isn't going to do anything. I love what they've done with the show over the season, they made me enjoy it ways I never thought I would. The opener is amazingly beautiful, Aguns Dei is the kind of Cadets I know and love, and that ending is about as drum corps as it gets and from what I have seen and heard the members are loving it and there is a big fan base for the show. I could bring up what I don't personally enjoy but honestly at this point the season is almost over and I just wanna enjoy every show for what they are because the page is almost turned for the 2017 chapter and I wanna enjoy what I can before it's done. There is probably a time and place for the kind of discussion happening but I dunno. Let's finish this season. ...carry on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCPusername Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, HbRJgdZHsbc said: I generally agree with this sentiment. But is it poor design or poor process? Seems like 90's all the way to 2015 things were great out of the gate. Then they either won because they got it right the first time, or they shot themselves in the foot scrambling to throw everything and the kitchen sink into the program the last 2 weeks. Jeff, Jay, Colin/Tom, etc. were all great designers for the team . . . when they were allowed to do their jobs. I think we can all see things that George threw in as a last ditch effort. The tarps in 2014, the tarps this year, the tarps in 1999, the tarps in 2011 (that one worked), the uniform change in 2015, the fire trucks in 2002. This year it's all about how many crosses can exist in 13 minutes. Abandon the meaningful concept and give them icons of the concept. WAIT! Did I just accidentally make the case for how the reckless process that usually hampers the end of the season is somehow emblematic of Bernstein's struggle with authenticity in religion? Is there still time to change the program notes they send the judges? Aaaaand ... the hair has been split. But it does have a ring of truth to it. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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