Electronic Amplification

[Bobby L. Collins]

I've lurked here for a very long time, always refraining from posting my thoughts and feelings, but this topic is just too important.

I am a dinosaur.  I marched only one year in a div. III corps in 1997, but thanks to PBS I've been a fan of drum corps since the early 80s,  I also taught brass and arranged music for a local div. III/DCA corps.  The last two DCI events I attended were the 2005 prelims in a movie theater, and the 2006 show in Cookeville, Tennessee.  This was at or near the dawn of the whole amplification movement, but at that point I believe it was limited to front ensemble, and members yelling into microphones.  In 2005, I was struck by how unfortunate it was that the Cadets' hornline was playing such a beautiful ballad, but all anyone could hear was marimba.  And at Cookeville in 2006, it was the same story with the handful of corps that actually performed (it was ultimately rained out).  I decided then and there that attending shows was no longer a good value.

Since then, the activity has changed so much that I have very little interest in it anymore.  There are a lot of points that set me off (replacing bugles with marching band equipment, replacing marching and playing with interpretive dance, replacing spinning and tossing with crawling and emoting, and all the expensive, dangerous props), but the ever-expanding amplification is the biggest turnoff for me, for several reasons.  The biggest is, of course, that it's disingenuous.  I want to hear a drum corps' natural performance, as it has been for the past 70+ years.  I don't want to hear the subtle textured nuances of a backfield soloist sidechained into a sampled babbling stream by a professional audio engineer.  I don't want to hear a concert choir oohing and aahing over a ballad buildup, much less the hit. I want to hear how much sound a hornline can generate with the air in their lungs, rather than with the wattage in their speakers.  I've actually said this before in another context (college marching band).  Every single member of the hornine and drumline is already holding an amplifier in their hands (except, of course, when they put them on the ground so they can run around and frolic for G.E. points).  Why in the name of sanity do they need additional amplification?

I've heard lots of excuses for it.  The biggest is "artistic creativity".  I myself am a composer and arranger, and I like to think I know a thing or two about "artistic creativity".  And I find nothing artistic or creative about amplification on the field.  Instead, I find it incredibly distracting, a massive waste of resources, and extremely damaging to the future of the activity.  I've also read more than once that brass instruments don't sound good when played loud, and that the amplification allows them to play well and still be heard.  As a music educator and a musician, I know that is complete tosh.  The only reason our ancestors had the bright idea of buzzing their lips into animal horns in the first place was that it was loud.  Being loud is what brass instruments do.  Arnold Jacobs, Philip Farkas, Bud Herseth, Vince Chichowicz and Frank Crisafulli didn't keep their chairs in the Chicago Symphony all those years by playing one dynamic level into microphones (and I used those examples because I don't think the folks who make such a ridiculous claim would even know who Arturo Sandoval, Maynard Ferguson, Wynton Marsalis, or Doc Severinsen are).  Furthermore, if brass instruments didn't sound good at a loud dynamic, then this activity wouldn't even exist today, for no one would have given a toss about drum and bugle corps throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.  Those corps' hornlines may not have been up to the intonation standards of today's highbrow drum corps afficianado holding a tuner in his hand....but they had to have been doing something right all those years, no?

As best as I can tell, the only logical reason for amplifying the brass in a drum corps is so that it can be heard over the amplified percussion, choir, synthesizers, and ambient samples.  "Getting out of hand" is an understatement.  It's not a question of artistic merit, or playing with a good sound.  It's instead a question of being obfuscated by all the other gimmicks being employed by corps today in order to be competitive in the most ridiculous scoring system imaginable.  It also sends the wrong message to the performers; they work hard almost every day for several months, and at the end of the day, most of their hard work is being covered up by a professional audio engineer.  That's just not good music education, in my book.  Nor does it do proper service to longtime fans and supporters.

Amplification on the field has much farther-reaching implications.  High school and college marching bands take their cues from drum corps, and more and more bands are "amping up" in order to emulate their drum corps heroes.  The last high school marching competition I attended was intolerable, with all the wrong notes being played straight into microphones (mercifully, half their shows involved interpretive dance, which makes me wonder if that too isn't designed to cover up deficiencies rather than to be artistically creative).   Even my college alma mater, which used to have one of the best bands in the NCAA, has become reliant upon amplification in order to be heard in its native stadium, which is absolutely ridiculous for a 300+ member band (and I've heard every excuse imaginable for that, none of which hold up to the scrutiny of common sense).

I just don't know how much longer DCI and the corps are going to be able to rely upon friends and family of current members, recent age-outs who have only known amplification, and donors to fill up the seats in the venues, because amplification (along with all the other ridiculous changes injected into the activity in the past 15 years) is demonstrably killing off the activity in the eyes (and ears) of vets and long-time fans.  I realize some fans love it, and gush over it, and simply cannot shut up about how terrific it is, but I'm not entirely positive they're the ones keeping DCI from going bankrupt.  I just don't know how much longer the activity is going to survive when the vast majority of its fanbase can no longer stand to watch or listen to it.

If DCI stops using electronics, then high school and college bands will stop using them.  That's the only way forward.  Otherwise, the entire marching activity is at risk of being replaced by cheerleaders and dance squads, pre-recorded hip hop, and Summer Guard International (which it already is, but amplification isn't helping).  And I know there are some who would love that, and who are actively petitioning for that to happen.  Whether it does or not is kind of up to you.  I say "you" because I've already sabotaged my own career by trying to save a college marching band from itself.  There's not much I can do to help save DCI but point out what's wrong with it, and how to fix it.  It's up to others to actually do something about it.

Anyway, I've stopped advocating drum corps to my students, because I simply cannot in good faith look them in the eyes and say "Remember, if you practice really hard, and stay extremely physically fit, and have rich parents with disposable income and/or really good credit, you too can be a part of an elite corps of musicians who spend an entire summer being drowned out by synthesizers, reverb, pre-recorded samples, stationary singers, and narration".   

[garfield]

21 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I've lurked here for a very long time, always refraining from posting my thoughts and feelings, but this topic is just too important.

I am a dinosaur.  I marched only one year in a div. III corps in 1997, but thanks to PBS I've been a fan of drum corps since the early 80s,  I also taught brass and arranged music for a local div. III/DCA corps.  The last two DCI events I attended were the 2005 prelims in a movie theater, and the 2006 show in Cookeville, Tennessee.  This was at or near the dawn of the whole amplification movement, but at that point I believe it was limited to front ensemble, and members yelling into microphones.  In 2005, I was struck by how unfortunate it was that the Cadets' hornline was playing such a beautiful ballad, but all anyone could hear was marimba.  And at Cookeville in 2006, it was the same story with the handful of corps that actually performed (it was ultimately rained out).  I decided then and there that attending shows was no longer a good value.

Since then, the activity has changed so much that I have very little interest in it anymore.  There are a lot of points that set me off (replacing bugles with marching band equipment, replacing marching and playing with interpretive dance, replacing spinning and tossing with crawling and emoting, and all the expensive, dangerous props), but the ever-expanding amplification is the biggest turnoff for me, for several reasons.  The biggest is, of course, that it's disingenuous.  I want to hear a drum corps' natural performance, as it has been for the past 70+ years.  I don't want to hear the subtle textured nuances of a backfield soloist sidechained into a sampled babbling stream by a professional audio engineer.  I don't want to hear a concert choir oohing and aahing over a ballad buildup, much less the hit. I want to hear how much sound a hornline can generate with the air in their lungs, rather than with the wattage in their speakers.  I've actually said this before in another context (college marching band).  Every single member of the hornine and drumline is already holding an amplifier in their hands (except, of course, when they put them on the ground so they can run around and frolic for G.E. points).  Why in the name of sanity do they need additional amplification?

I've heard lots of excuses for it.  The biggest is "artistic creativity".  I myself am a composer and arranger, and I like to think I know a thing or two about "artistic creativity".  And I find nothing artistic or creative about amplification on the field.  Instead, I find it incredibly distracting, a massive waste of resources, and extremely damaging to the future of the activity.  I've also read more than once that brass instruments don't sound good when played loud, and that the amplification allows them to play well and still be heard.  As a music educator and a musician, I know that is complete tosh.  The only reason our ancestors had the bright idea of buzzing their lips into animal horns in the first place was that it was loud.  Being loud is what brass instruments do.  Arnold Jacobs, Philip Farkas, Bud Herseth, Vince Chichowicz and Frank Crisafulli didn't keep their chairs in the Chicago Symphony all those years by playing one dynamic level into microphones (and I used those examples because I don't think the folks who make such a ridiculous claim would even know who Arturo Sandoval, Maynard Ferguson, Wynton Marsalis, or Doc Severinsen are).  Furthermore, if brass instruments didn't sound good at a loud dynamic, then this activity wouldn't even exist today, for no one would have given a toss about drum and bugle corps throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.  Those corps' hornlines may not have been up to the intonation standards of today's highbrow drum corps afficianado holding a tuner in his hand....but they had to have been doing something right all those years, no?

As best as I can tell, the only logical reason for amplifying the brass in a drum corps is so that it can be heard over the amplified percussion, choir, synthesizers, and ambient samples.  "Getting out of hand" is an understatement.  It's not a question of artistic merit, or playing with a good sound.  It's instead a question of being obfuscated by all the other gimmicks being employed by corps today in order to be competitive in the most ridiculous scoring system imaginable.  It also sends the wrong message to the performers; they work hard almost every day for several months, and at the end of the day, most of their hard work is being covered up by a professional audio engineer.  That's just not good music education, in my book.  Nor does it do proper service to longtime fans and supporters.

Amplification on the field has much farther-reaching implications.  High school and college marching bands take their cues from drum corps, and more and more bands are "amping up" in order to emulate their drum corps heroes.  The last high school marching competition I attended was intolerable, with all the wrong notes being played straight into microphones (mercifully, half their shows involved interpretive dance, which makes me wonder if that too isn't designed to cover up deficiencies rather than to be artistically creative).   Even my college alma mater, which used to have one of the best bands in the NCAA, has become reliant upon amplification in order to be heard in its native stadium, which is absolutely ridiculous for a 300+ member band (and I've heard every excuse imaginable for that, none of which hold up to the scrutiny of common sense).

I just don't know how much longer DCI and the corps are going to be able to rely upon friends and family of current members, recent age-outs who have only known amplification, and donors to fill up the seats in the venues, because amplification (along with all the other ridiculous changes injected into the activity in the past 15 years) is demonstrably killing off the activity in the eyes (and ears) of vets and long-time fans.  I realize some fans love it, and gush over it, and simply cannot shut up about how terrific it is, but I'm not entirely positive they're the ones keeping DCI from going bankrupt.  I just don't know how much longer the activity is going to survive when the vast majority of its fanbase can no longer stand to watch or listen to it.

If DCI stops using electronics, then high school and college bands will stop using them.  That's the only way forward.  Otherwise, the entire marching activity is at risk of being replaced by cheerleaders and dance squads, pre-recorded hip hop, and Summer Guard International (which it already is, but amplification isn't helping).  And I know there are some who would love that, and who are actively petitioning for that to happen.  Whether it does or not is kind of up to you.  I say "you" because I've already sabotaged my own career by trying to save a college marching band from itself.  There's not much I can do to help save DCI but point out what's wrong with it, and how to fix it.  It's up to others to actually do something about it.

Anyway, I've stopped advocating drum corps to my students, because I simply cannot in good faith look them in the eyes and say "Remember, if you practice really hard, and stay extremely physically fit, and have rich parents with disposable income and/or really good credit, you too can be a part of an elite corps of musicians who spend an entire summer being drowned out by synthesizers, reverb, pre-recorded samples, stationary singers, and narration".   

1997?!  Rookie.  You're not old by comparison to many of us here.  

I can tell you that, personally, until I heard GH on the video (the other thread on A&E), this was my last year.  Period.

I simply can't stand by anymore and dump tens-of-thousands into an activity that pays such little attention to its paying customers and, when they are addressed, it's with such righteous indignation and institutional arrogance driven to show them how little they know.  We should support their brilliance just because they are creative - we don't know enough to do otherwise.

Now, however, I'll pony up one more time and hope that there is change.  I'll be watching the Janual to see if 2019 season will have some changes even if it means that, again, I'll have to plug my ears when the top-5 take the field.

I'm about done, and nobody here or at DCI (or, except for a few corps, none of the directors) gives a crap.

Ce la vie.

 

 

[MikeN]

7 minutes ago, garfield said:

1997?!  Rookie.  You're not old by comparison to many of us here.  

I can tell you that, personally, until I heard GH on the video (the other thread on A&E), this was my last year.  Period.

I simply can't stand by anymore and dump tens-of-thousands into an activity that pays such little attention to its paying customers and, when they are addressed, it's with such righteous indignation and institutional arrogance driven to show them how little they know.  We should support their brilliance just because they are creative - we don't know enough to do otherwise.

Now, however, I'll pony up one more time and hope that there is change.  I'll be watching the Janual to see if 2019 season will have some changes even if it means that, again, I'll have to plug my ears when the top-5 take the field.

I'm about done, and nobody here or at DCI (or, except for a few corps, none of the directors) gives a crap.

Ce la vie.

 

 

Really? I... didn't know you felt that strongly about it. 

Mike

[drumcorpsfever]

Is amplification to drum corps what PED's are to sports?

Perhaps that's a bit extreme.  There are good uses for amps.  I'm not sure stomping it out is the answer.   But good use of electronics should be rewarded - and poor use recognized in the scoring sheets.   It's up to DCI membership to define what they feel is the best use of their toys.   As fans, we can only hope they sheppard the activity in the right direction.

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by drumcorpsfever

[lanceengland]

Every rule or allowance has an intended and unintended consequence. I personally loved the Bluecoats pitch bend, and would hate to see a rule that squashed that type of creativity. On the other hand, I don't want an entire horn line mic'd, or using pre-recorded brass to boost impacts (or even synth "goo", for that matter).

Maybe small changes can reel it back a bit. Disallow wireless mics? Limit the number of cabinets or mics? Have the judge in the press box score corps lower if the amplification is louder than the brass?

Maybe a compromise. Every 5 years DCI has a "throwback" year where the corps compete with zero electronics or amplifications? 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

yeah ya know cause everyone hangs out on DCP all day waiting to reply to you

 

Hmmmm... I see that you are very close to 100,000 postings on DCP there Jeff

 

 

 

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I've lurked here for a very long time, always refraining from posting my thoughts and feelings, but this topic is just too important.

I am a dinosaur.  I marched only one year in a div. III corps in 1997, but thanks to PBS I've been a fan of drum corps since the early 80s,  I also taught brass and arranged music for a local div. III/DCA corps.  The last two DCI events I attended were the 2005 prelims in a movie theater, and the 2006 show in Cookeville, Tennessee.  This was at or near the dawn of the whole amplification movement, but at that point I believe it was limited to front ensemble, and members yelling into microphones.  In 2005, I was struck by how unfortunate it was that the Cadets' hornline was playing such a beautiful ballad, but all anyone could hear was marimba.  And at Cookeville in 2006, it was the same story with the handful of corps that actually performed (it was ultimately rained out).  I decided then and there that attending shows was no longer a good value.

Since then, the activity has changed so much that I have very little interest in it anymore.  There are a lot of points that set me off (replacing bugles with marching band equipment, replacing marching and playing with interpretive dance, replacing spinning and tossing with crawling and emoting, and all the expensive, dangerous props), but the ever-expanding amplification is the biggest turnoff for me, for several reasons.  The biggest is, of course, that it's disingenuous.  I want to hear a drum corps' natural performance, as it has been for the past 70+ years.  I don't want to hear the subtle textured nuances of a backfield soloist sidechained into a sampled babbling stream by a professional audio engineer.  I don't want to hear a concert choir oohing and aahing over a ballad buildup, much less the hit. I want to hear how much sound a hornline can generate with the air in their lungs, rather than with the wattage in their speakers.  I've actually said this before in another context (college marching band).  Every single member of the hornine and drumline is already holding an amplifier in their hands (except, of course, when they put them on the ground so they can run around and frolic for G.E. points).  Why in the name of sanity do they need additional amplification?

I've heard lots of excuses for it.  The biggest is "artistic creativity".  I myself am a composer and arranger, and I like to think I know a thing or two about "artistic creativity".  And I find nothing artistic or creative about amplification on the field.  Instead, I find it incredibly distracting, a massive waste of resources, and extremely damaging to the future of the activity.  I've also read more than once that brass instruments don't sound good when played loud, and that the amplification allows them to play well and still be heard.  As a music educator and a musician, I know that is complete tosh.  The only reason our ancestors had the bright idea of buzzing their lips into animal horns in the first place was that it was loud.  Being loud is what brass instruments do.  Arnold Jacobs, Philip Farkas, Bud Herseth, Vince Chichowicz and Frank Crisafulli didn't keep their chairs in the Chicago Symphony all those years by playing one dynamic level into microphones (and I used those examples because I don't think the folks who make such a ridiculous claim would even know who Arturo Sandoval, Maynard Ferguson, Wynton Marsalis, or Doc Severinsen are).  Furthermore, if brass instruments didn't sound good at a loud dynamic, then this activity wouldn't even exist today, for no one would have given a toss about drum and bugle corps throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.  Those corps' hornlines may not have been up to the intonation standards of today's highbrow drum corps afficianado holding a tuner in his hand....but they had to have been doing something right all those years, no?

As best as I can tell, the only logical reason for amplifying the brass in a drum corps is so that it can be heard over the amplified percussion, choir, synthesizers, and ambient samples.  "Getting out of hand" is an understatement.  It's not a question of artistic merit, or playing with a good sound.  It's instead a question of being obfuscated by all the other gimmicks being employed by corps today in order to be competitive in the most ridiculous scoring system imaginable.  It also sends the wrong message to the performers; they work hard almost every day for several months, and at the end of the day, most of their hard work is being covered up by a professional audio engineer.  That's just not good music education, in my book.  Nor does it do proper service to longtime fans and supporters.

Amplification on the field has much farther-reaching implications.  High school and college marching bands take their cues from drum corps, and more and more bands are "amping up" in order to emulate their drum corps heroes.  The last high school marching competition I attended was intolerable, with all the wrong notes being played straight into microphones (mercifully, half their shows involved interpretive dance, which makes me wonder if that too isn't designed to cover up deficiencies rather than to be artistically creative).   Even my college alma mater, which used to have one of the best bands in the NCAA, has become reliant upon amplification in order to be heard in its native stadium, which is absolutely ridiculous for a 300+ member band (and I've heard every excuse imaginable for that, none of which hold up to the scrutiny of common sense).

I just don't know how much longer DCI and the corps are going to be able to rely upon friends and family of current members, recent age-outs who have only known amplification, and donors to fill up the seats in the venues, because amplification (along with all the other ridiculous changes injected into the activity in the past 15 years) is demonstrably killing off the activity in the eyes (and ears) of vets and long-time fans.  I realize some fans love it, and gush over it, and simply cannot shut up about how terrific it is, but I'm not entirely positive they're the ones keeping DCI from going bankrupt.  I just don't know how much longer the activity is going to survive when the vast majority of its fanbase can no longer stand to watch or listen to it.

If DCI stops using electronics, then high school and college bands will stop using them.  That's the only way forward.  Otherwise, the entire marching activity is at risk of being replaced by cheerleaders and dance squads, pre-recorded hip hop, and Summer Guard International (which it already is, but amplification isn't helping).  And I know there are some who would love that, and who are actively petitioning for that to happen.  Whether it does or not is kind of up to you.  I say "you" because I've already sabotaged my own career by trying to save a college marching band from itself.  There's not much I can do to help save DCI but point out what's wrong with it, and how to fix it.  It's up to others to actually do something about it.

Anyway, I've stopped advocating drum corps to my students, because I simply cannot in good faith look them in the eyes and say "Remember, if you practice really hard, and stay extremely physically fit, and have rich parents with disposable income and/or really good credit, you too can be a part of an elite corps of musicians who spend an entire summer being drowned out by synthesizers, reverb, pre-recorded samples, stationary singers, and narration".   

quite literally as research shows, those of the majority age group of complainers about the changes are slowly dying off. Plus as there was a huge disconnect with alumni from the say mid 80's to early 2000's in terms of staying in the fanbase, new fans are being grown and sticking around.

 

I attended my first show at the age of 5 weeks old in 1969. I still kinda remember OTL, I remember when everything was carried, second then later 3 valves added, the pit grounded, and so forth. I'll admit and you can search here I was adamantly against Amps, knowing what it would lead to. I was also not a fan of what was being called the dreaded WGI influence.

 

Then a funny thing happened....I taught at a school with WGI aspirations. Sure I'd hit up the local regional, but we had few groups above A class here at that time. So real exposure was limited. Then in 2010 I ventured out to Dayton as a fan, and while I watched most of Scholastic A prelims and some of Open on Thursday, World class prelims, both scholastic and independent opened my eyes. I started buying in. Pulse, RCC, X....My God. I forget that school from Colorado in World...didn't win, but good lord what a production....it stayed with me. Bluecoats that summer also helped reel me in.

 

Then as time went on, more and more corps got good at the integration and for the most part avoided cheese, and then continued to come up with new tricks and ways to use the technology to amaze....I'm all in. Sure balance issues drive me nuts, always have and will as i feel most judges dont have the balls to make a statement about it.And as the younger generations know nothing but and are using amazing technology hat keeps being created daily in their lives, it will only grow to be expected.

DCI for a long time tried to balance their approach to two groups...old school and new school. that was a doomed mixed message from day 1. And since they unmixed that message, attendance has been rising.

[Jeff Ream]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

Hmmmm... I see that you are very close to 100,000 postings on DCP there Jeff

 

 

 

yeah about 90,000 of which were between 2002 and 2007. 

[jwillis35]

1 hour ago, garfield said:

1997?!  Rookie.  You're not old by comparison to many of us here.  

I can tell you that, personally, until I heard GH on the video (the other thread on A&E), this was my last year.  Period.

I simply can't stand by anymore and dump tens-of-thousands into an activity that pays such little attention to its paying customers and, when they are addressed, it's with such righteous indignation and institutional arrogance driven to show them how little they know.  We should support their brilliance just because they are creative - we don't know enough to do otherwise.

Now, however, I'll pony up one more time and hope that there is change.  I'll be watching the Janual to see if 2019 season will have some changes even if it means that, again, I'll have to plug my ears when the top-5 take the field.

I'm about done, and nobody here or at DCI (or, except for a few corps, none of the directors) gives a crap.

Ce la vie.

 

 

WOW, I would hate to see you go. I know you run a fantastic show! I have been able to come a few times. Other times I have had to call bingo for Bluecoats. But I can imagine the work and money that goes into the whole thing.  As fickle as Hopkins comes across now admitting that things have gone too far, I was glad he did because perhaps it changes some people's minds about support for the activity - as it has with you.  

I do not have a problem with some electronics, with some amplification. But it's wrong that people who sit low and center absolutely get pounded by synth bass and high, piercing synth strings or metallic-sounding solos that are mic'd poorly. Those seats are no longer worth any money and those people will soon stop coming to shows. DCI needs to take action now before the numbers fall.  

In general the entire pit is too loud and too electronic. There is an unnatural balance taking shape when mallet instruments are over-powering brass and battery percussion. When Mahler, Debussy, Tchaikovsky, or even modern composers like Copland, Gershwin, Bernstein and others, score for xylophone or marimba or vibes, they orchestrate them to enhance the sound, texture, and ensemble writing of the orchestra. They do not want their sound to dominate from the front, but to slightly project from the back -- which is where they are placed in the orchestra.  Drum & Bugle Corps has thrown everything but the kitchen sink into the pit and amplified it to the detriment of the brass and percussion on the field.  

I still love that some corps handle this well and work with balances as well as possible. Bloo, to me, has mostly done fantastic work in this area; but on a whole I find the activity moving away from sensible and musical balances. If this is what they want, it may be time to move the pit to the back of the field (or middle) and amplify from there. 

[Schnitzel]

2 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I still love that some corps handle this well and work with balances as well as possible. Bloo, to me, has mostly done fantastic work in this area; but on a whole I find the activity moving away from sensible and musical balances. If this is what they want, it may be time to move the pit to the back of the field (or middle) and amplify from there. 

1

Given the success of Music City Mystique this winter, with their back-staged, then actively moving pit, we may see more alternative positioning next Summer.