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Madison Scouts now officially co-ed


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1 minute ago, ndkbass said:

Yeah....no.  Not at all.  No one is saying that there cannot be an all-male corps, so chris7997 is just wrong in that regard.  Since you are an alumnus of Madison, would you feel the same way if it was Cavies and not Scouts?  Would chris7997?

Absolutly.

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1 minute ago, jeffmolnar said:

This post should be required reading before anyone engages in these discussions.

Thanks for the support! 😎

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4 hours ago, chris7997 said:

This is a terrible decision by the Madison Scouts. 

It's another result of political correctness.  And wrong on multiple levels (and for the DCI forum morality police, no, I don't mean that having a corps with women is wrong! So just relax).  

Having a diversity of corps with different traditions is a healthy thing.  Valuing diversity gives more people choice.  If I want to be in an all-male corps one year, I can. If I don't, and want to be in a co-ed, I can. I have choices.  Women in drum corps have 21 choices.  Heck, there may be an "all female" drum corps one day -- that would be kind of cool.  Diversity is a good thing. 

First of all, it's not promoting discrimination to just simply exist as an all male-corps.  DCI has what 22 World Class corps and 21 of them are co-ed.  

Second, Madison Scouts are a private organization and they can uphold whatever traditions they want.  We have all female private colleges. We have all black private colleges.  We even have, sadly in my opinion, all black graduations.  So the people who cry discrimination, practice discrimination all the time, excluding one group or another.  But when it comes to an all male corps..."NO! We can't have that!"  

Third, no one, and I mean no one, in the last 20 years...has gone to a DCI concert, heard the Madison Scouts and said, "Gosh, they are only all male? They must really be a discriminatory drum corps! They must hate women."  Not one.  People go, "Oh wow, unique."  And move on.  

Fourth, and I have to challenge the posts I say that say "leave politics out of this discussion" - first of all, there's free speech in this country. It's a free forum. Second, by saying that you are really saying, "I just want to hear my side of the argument, 'traditional value people' need to shut up."  

Lastly, most of the people who voted for this in the Madison Scouts organization wouldn't dare label an all-female corps as "discriminatory" or practicing "discrimination," nor try to lobby to get them to accept men.  Why is that?  Ultimately this boils down to the political correctness that pervades our society in thinking that it must be "BAD" if it's all men. 

If you value diversity and choice in Drum Corps, you will not like this decision by the Scouts.  If you don't value those things, you'll love it. 

It's not a terrible decision by the Madison Scouts. Most corps, at one time, were all male or all female. This move is about inclusion. It isn't about condemning the past, being politically correct, or attempting to correct some past discrimination that some people may have perceived to have been there. I don't think it's discriminatory to have all male or all female organizations. I just think, it this day and age, it's pretty pointless. I like that people are finally starting to be allowed just be people without being put into these gender boxes. 

The Scouts aren't like the Cavaliers - they just don't draw top talent. The Cavaliers can afford to stay all male because they can stay all male and remain competitive and relevant. The Scouts cannot. They are literally increasing their talent pool by close to 100%. That's actually a smart move for a corps that is struggling competitively.

I value diversity and choice in ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE and I love this decision. I wouldn't have cared if they had stayed all male for the rest of their existence, or had any opinion about it, but that's not what they decided to do. I support them being gender inclusive just as I support the Cavaliers remaining all male, or Crossmen deciding to have an all female guard. 

I don't think the Scouts did this in any way, shape, or form out of trying to erase some perceived discrimination, because I don't think the Scouts organization has ever thought they were discriminatory, and I don't think that either.

 

Edited by queenanne_1536
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1 minute ago, gregory11 said:

Please!!!  When will this trend stop.  People act like Madison committed a Crime!!!

I know. I just don't get what the big deal is. They made a decision they felt would serve their organization the best. That's it.

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4 minutes ago, FlamMan said:

Absolutly.

Ok.  What if they had only amended the policy to allow transmen, instead of anyone regardless of gender identity or biological sex?  This policy change largely occurred, if I understand the history correctly, because of out transmen wanting to audition and being denied.  Additionally, how can anyone say that a transperson (in this case a transwomen) had not already marched the corps or is currently marching, but is/was not out (meaning they still present as a biological male/masculine gender identity?  We cannot.  That is one of the chief reasons I think this is a great move by the organization.  It recognizes that the Madison swagger, and the superman suit, is not something just appreciated by and aspired to by heterosexual and heteronormative men, but by a wide swath of people from various gender identities, biological sexes, and sexual orientations.  For example, one of Komnick's own daughters is named Madison.  That is how much he loves the corps and how deeply his experience moved him.  How awesome would it be for her to be able to march and experience the same camaraderie that he did?!?!?!  Furthermore, the corps has come along way in its membership.  I have heard plenty of (horrifying) stories from back in the day about how masculinity was portrayed by various members in quite homophobic (and violent) ways that would never have been tolerated by membership or staff when I was marching, and I am glad for that.

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1 hour ago, MikeD said:

Not sure how your son has a "loss of options". He can still try out for all of the same corps he could have last year. Your daughter has one more choice than she had before is the sum difference in the Scouts expanding their potential member base. 

IMO the Scouts made the change to open up the potential member pool to attract as much talent as they can, regardless of gender. This is but one piece of the puzzle.

well if any guards go all female, he may have lost options if he's a guard person

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1 hour ago, ndkbass said:

Yeah....no.  Not at all.  No one is saying that there cannot be an all-male corps, so chris7997 is just wrong in that regard.  Since you are an alumnus of Madison, would you feel the same way if it was Cavies and not Scouts?  Would chris7997?

actually several people are trying to eliminate all male corps. even in this thread some said said "yes only one to go" or along those lines. I have seen it on social media as well

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