JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: Color me unsurprised again. Would you invest in a costly refinery upgrade when the consensus is that society will be decreasing fossil fuel use? Heard about refusal to upgrade 20+ years ago. So refiners will just continue to limp along for another unknown number of years so they can say they are saving money now. Way I read it, refiners not even looking at the future they are only concerned about this years dividends. Sounds like my old IT job. “Why upgrade if everything works now?”. Then years later things run like crap because so far behind the times 🤦♂️ Edited June 10, 2022 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Heard about refusal to upgrade 20+ years ago. So refiners will just continue to limp along for another unknown number of years so they can say they are saving money now. Way I read it, refiners not even looking at the future they are only concerned about this years dividends. Sounds like my old IT job. “Why upgrade if everything works now?”. Then years later things run like crap because so far behind the times 🤦♂️ Even if we started building 100 new refineries today, it would have no impact on this season's diesel prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Even if we started building 100 new refineries today, it would have no impact on this season's diesel prices. Agreed, just pointing out that this is something that has been a problem for years (decades). And the refusal to plan for the future is biting us in the … today and will continue to bite for a long time. Afraid this just might be the start for touring, fan travel and everything else Edited June 10, 2022 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjordansc Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: Agreed, just pointing out that this is something that has been a problem for years (decades). And the refusal to plan for the future is biting us in the … today and will continue to bite for a long time. Afraid this just might be the start for touring, fan travel and everything else Investors are planning for the future, that is why new refineries are not being built. Returns are uncertain. Automobile companies are moving fast to EV vehicles. Last year GM pledged to phase-out all petroleum-powered vehicles by 2035. All car manufacturers are on the same path. This is why you will see no new refineries built. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, mcjordansc said: Investors are planning for the future, that is why new refineries are not being built. Returns are uncertain. Automobile companies are moving fast to EV vehicles. Last year GM pledged to phase-out all petroleum-powered vehicles by 2035. All car manufacturers are on the same path. This is why you will see no new refineries built. That’s all well and good as long as the infrastructure can keep pace with the demand for electricity. My house is a new build and has the capacity for a charging station. And I really don’t want rolling blackouts. The electrical grid has to be able keep up with demand. We’re not there yet. Maybe in 12 years. I don’t know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenHut Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 There just isn't enough wind and sun to power the world without fossil fuels. And EV's will be more costly to drive than gas engine vehicles once the government gets their hand in on taxing EV owners to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue. Meanwhile, China is building more than 50 new coal fired energy facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 45 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said: That’s all well and good as long as the infrastructure can keep pace with the demand for electricity. My house is a new build and has the capacity for a charging station. And I really don’t want rolling blackouts. The electrical grid has to be able keep up with demand. We’re not there yet. Maybe in 12 years. I don’t know. My dad was a power-grid engineer. So I understand a bit how it works. We are nowhere near the electricity generation capacity nor distribution system required for what the auto manufacturers are touting. And adding capacity takes years. So someone better go fix that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) . Edited June 10, 2022 by IllianaLancerContra double post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjordansc Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I wasn't trying to start an electric grid discussion or a debate on the validity of EV vehicles. I was simply pointing out why investors are not keen on putting money into new refineries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: My dad was a power-grid engineer. So I understand a bit how it works. We are nowhere near the electricity generation capacity nor distribution system required for what the auto manufacturers are touting. And adding capacity takes years. So someone better go fix that +1 I'm a civil engineer in NJ. I just took a Continuing Ed. class on EV parking. We were told, just what you said, about the lack of capacity for power generation and distribution for large numbers of EV's. We're now required to provide electric charging stations/parking stalls for any multi-family project. The state is allowing a "credit" of 1 space for each charging space (1=2) for up to 10% of the required number of spaces. That lets multi-family projects be "under parked", including the fact that the charging station parking spaces can't be used for anything other then EV's. That forces people to search for "on street" or other parking. The charging stations are also currently about $25 K each, and the ones we've use need a 100 amp service. Maybe they'll come up with a way to put Solar Panels or Wind Turbines on car/truck roofs.🙂 Edited June 10, 2022 by rpbobcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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