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Listening to the 2012 studio recording at the moment (THANK YOU FOR DOING THESE BD), first of all like all studio recordings you miss so many details of the music books. The closer of that show musically is off the charts awesome, percussion writing is out of this world awesome. When a ScoJo book lines up and it gets clean there is no stopping that percussion section. And of course the Apollo 13 opener is one of the best things on the field in the modern era IMO.

I wasn't trying to imply any ill-will towards a corps. I was just genuinely curious. Financial struggles aren't fun-- believe me. My band has gone through that. No reason to disrespect a corps that's going through that.

DCP uniform for some of the threads lately

I don't think so. Star of Indiana in 1990-1993 essentially utilized no large field props.... utilized no Bb's ( utilized G's ).... utilized no trombones... no violins.... no French horns.... had no pre show.... had conventional, traditional uniforms...... utilized no amplification.... no electronics... no sound effects.... no current political messaging.... no make-up..... no winking..... no electric guitars.... no singing..... no vocalizations.... no preachiness....and dozens of things from their shows that is totally unlike in most respects in what " the creative process " is today. For all intents and purposes, the Star of Indiana shows of 1990-1993 is a nostalgic trip down memory lane from over 25 years ago whose shows from back then bare little to no relationship at all to todays DCI Corps shows, imo. None of todays DCI Corps shows look nor sound anything like the Star of Indiana's shows, imo

Maybe 12th place is volatile. But I suspect that 10,11,12,13 is going to be a grouping - NOT 12,13,14,15. Finalists are all getting so good it makes your head spin.

I'm all for Madison Scouts breaking in and taking finals back by storm, I absolutely loved them in 2015. I listen to that show all the time.

I don't see Academy or Xmen dropping out. In fact I think Xmen will advance. It's going to be a tough year to break into finals.

Scoring is all relative so (IMO) it's always important to see who moves where. I agree with you that just moving from 3rd to 5th by itself is not big. (although I think Crown should always be in medal contention!!) Anyway I have no idea what's going to happen at Cadets. None at all. I could see them moving back up and I could also believe another dip. I do believe they picked great music. Bobby will design a good product. No Gino, No Colin. That's what I don't know. I'm a little more optimistic about Crown. I think they upgraded in design and (possibly?) upgraded at guard. Top to bottom that guard staff is far more experienced than last year. Yes MT is a fantastic choreographer. I'd also point out that what he wrote was very often tagged as "over-writing" for outdoor. I was worried about movement but camp reports have put those worries to rest.

Cavaliers are on one of the Champions discs and Madison Scouts is on Classics.

The Hawaiian shirts will ALWAYS be the parade attire for Atlanta CV! Dan

Which I don't think will happen.

14th

So the staff shakeup rockets the Cadets and tanks Crown? Interesting.

One of the many changes Boston's BOD has begun is asking alumni to include in their wills that the corps can have any of the wonder metals they may have received during surgery. The corps has contracted with a local foundry to melt the metals down and ship it to Band Shoppe. It's a way for alumni to still march with the corps legally.

Peter Lynch probably would.

Considering the company was founded in 1996 and is now a multi billion dollar behemoth, I'd say yes...it is a success. So they finally have a year that doesn't witness a 20+% growth rate. It was bound to happen. It's probably a good time to buy their stock within the next year honestly. https://www.google.com/amp/seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4046607-armour-great-growth-story-will-continue?client=safari Haha not trying to rain on your parade, but I guess I do get defensive. UA is one the best American success stories of our time. Mr. Plank started selling shirts out of the trunk of his car 20 years ago...and now Major League Baseball will be wearing his brand on field. It's not crazy that an exclusive sports apparel company would decide against marketing themselves towards band, IMO. I mean, I would love to see that! But nothing to hold a grudge over.

You realize that the Cadets and Cadets2 both had the traditional uniform at the same time before mid-2015.

Has anyone seen the article where the Cadets were saying that they were selling the black uniforms? I doubt they're going back to the original uniforms because Cadets 2 have them. So I'm hoping for a uniform change that stays true to the Cadets

personally, I think as a garden plant holder seems about right.

Prelims started early last year (9AM) and they offered coffee and muffins. It was the worst coffee I ever had, so that was what Lucas Oil Stadium offered!

The video from Pacific Crest's 2016 show is finally up on demand on the DCI website...I think it wins for the most edited and cut show that has ever been released by DCI. I think there is only 6 minutes of actual show posted, the rest not there due to licensing issues I'm assuming. Understandable, but still frustrating and sad for the fans and the performers of PC. Still waiting on Madison Scouts, Jersey Surf, Oregon Crusaders, and Spirit of Atlanta...

Living in the Baltimore area... seeing what Mr. Plank and his company have done to help the region, and what they have planned for the future here, "arrogance" is not a term I would use to describe how they do business or how they make business decisions. He's as good a "corporate citizen" as you will ever find. Whatever was said in that meeting regarding any decision having to do with the marching music world, I'm pretty sure it wasn't "arrogant."

Hate to break it to you Garfield. UA isn't a failing company and they will bounce back. I recall Addidas struggling in the US market not that long ago, and they seem to be doing well again. 56 colleges and universities have switched to UA...and that number is growing. In my earlier post that you chose to ignore, I stated that UA outfitted my college marching band. Clearly some of your statements are misguided. Also your obsession to see an American company and brand that employs thousands to fold because your feelings were hurt is rather odd

1. BD 2. Cadets 3. SCV 4. Coats 5. Crown 6. Cavies 7.BK 8. Boston 9. Phantom 10. Crossmen 11. Academy 12. Blue Stars ill plug in exact scores soon. well there you have it! 2017 was a great season...

Then there was the overcompensation of bass sound in the 1996 recordings. This didn't make them bad to listen to, just had to be careful with your settings when listening to them, or the bass could drown out the other sounds. By 1997 it seems that everything is the way it should be from there on through 2017. *The 1995 recordings almost sound like bootlegs at times. As if someone was just sitting on the sideline, or in the stands, with a single mic recorder.

I'm late to the party. I don't really feel like predicting exact placements because everyone gets so offended by a few positions they don't agree with, but I will say I expect Crown to fall out of the top 5 and the Cavaliers to remain in the top 5 as well as the Cadets to re-enter the top 5.

Christ i havent cared about a post count since 2007

its also a fallacy to believe that all the new toys, new ideas. etc came from the top tier Corps. Some did. But lots of new, creative innovations, or 1st uses of new instrumentation came not from the top tier Corps at all, but actually first were seen and heard from the much lower placing Corps. Some Corps that never even made Finals as a matter of fact. I mentioned BAC '85, Teal Sound, 2010-2011. Last season the Cadets utilized a violin soloist. They weren't the first. The Oregon Crusaders ( a non DCI Finalist ) introduced the violin first into DCI field competition 2 seasons ago. Undoubtably, the Cadets of 2016 liked the idea, and went with a violin soloist themselves last season. I could list lots of other creative innovations that were not found first in DCI by the top Corps, but in fact were first introduced into DCI by the much lower placing Corps.

When the Boston Crusaders introduced the use of electronics for the 1st time in DCI Drum Corps in 1985, there was really not much of a controversy with it at the time for the simple reason that from 1980-1985 the Boston Crusaders were a 20-25th placing Corps. No other Corps at the time seemed interested in utilizing electronics, especially the top 12, top 7 Corps at the time. So there was no issue. It reminds me of the first use of rock guitars in DCI competition a few years back. Teal Sound broke the mold with this cutting edge musical instrumentation in DCI competition. But once again, the Corps that first introduced this string musical instrument into DCI competition was likewise a 20th placing DCI Corps at the time. Similar to Boston in 1985, it appeared that no other Corps would soon follow Teal Sound to use rock guitars in DCI Competition. You can bet your life however, if 2 or 3 top tier DCI Corps came out this summer with rock guitarists playing rock guitars in the timed field competition, we'd have lots of heated discussions on its appropriateness or not for Drum Corps. Moving forward, rock guitars undoubtably will become a featured musical instrument staple in DCI Drum Corps at some point in the future. And when the inevitable heated discussions on its usage takes place, we can harken back to the 2010-2011 time frame when a now gone DCI Drum Corps was way ahead of its time ( as BAC was in 1985 ) and utilized something in its show that never even registered much in the way of any controversy at all.

I'd also love to hear Javelin on the field again.

I don't think corps are as sheepish in following trends as a lot of people fear they will be after who won last year. If anything after years of Blue Devils dominance corps have grown more diverse in their musical and visual styles, approaches, etc. in the last few years than they had for awhile in my eyes. We'll probably see a handful try the obvious things such as the uniforms a few times over the next few years but there isn't going to be this mass conformity that some people are scared of.

So you're saying a group from Ohio is going to win???

Exactly. As for the comments that I was "wishing" for the Blue Stars to be out, it simply comes down to the fact that I don't think 2017 will have room for them. There are so many corps in the 9-15 range that any given year could be in. I would never wish a group to not be successful, but I also am not going to think that someone will be in because others believe they will. As you said though, it really is guessing, and unfortunately people get their panties in a bunch when their corps is bumped out.

I'd love a Sci Fi show without all of the cliches in there like The Planets, Star Trek, etc. Tons of great stuff out there in the genre. Currently watching The Expanse on SciFi and in the video game world Mass Effect/Halo/and many more have tons of aesthetic and musical inspirations well beyond the same old same old we get every year from someone. Seattle Cascades get a pass for their 2015 show because of how they fused it with other music like their amazing Black Hole Sun/Jupiter ballad mashup. (Happy 10k to me).

I think Star of Indiana 1990-1993 changed the creative process forever.

I'll throw some up since I started this thread (someone had to) and haven't really predicted anything. I think The Cavaliers maintain or move up. I know there are many corps below them really gunning to move up and there sure as hell isnt a lot of room above them to move up but there was just something that felt really good about them as an organization and corps that showed an instant fantastic adjustment to some changes in approach on and off the field. People tend to forget about the stuff that goes on when they're not rehearsing and being a group of people that just seemed to gel REALLY well. They just felt "back" in all aspects. I think The Academy stays in. I just don't see the formulaic growth over 2 seasons not continuing. There is a plan and formula there and I don't see them throwing it away. Oh my God there is a storm brewing behind them from more than one corps but I think they have the goods to stay ahead of it. They seem incredibly in touch with their membership and what they can max out. I think Mandarins move up. They know how to create a full package like no one else in the non finalist bracket IMO. Their last two shows have been so balanced and well written for their members and what they can achieve. No weaknesses. No reliance on a strong section. Just a great corps inside and out. I think Cascades move up. Just read above why. An obvious approach and plan over multiple seasons starting in 2014 has left them stronger than they've been in over a decade before they went inactive for a year. They know who they are and what they're doing.

If I was someone looking for a place to march this summer who maybe didn't get in where they wanted the Cascades would be somewhere I would look. I love their shows and have only heard the best about their organization.

But it appears as though you are implying that, because they won GE and visual captions, their musicianship was scored higher than it should have been. Bluecoats, to my ears, were obviously and clearly one of the three most proficient musicianship Corps on tour. I don't even think that's honestly arguable. They played in front of every judging combination out there and rarely scored below fourth in any musical caption. They were likely the most consistent Corps on tour last year.

And first in overall music. No award given, but it's very important to understand how it played into the win. It wasn't ALL about GE but overall balance, of which music supercaption was a huge part.

I personally think it is absurd to claim that brass was "relegated" to a supporting role in this show. If anything, brass soloists dominated the musical performances. Blueoats have purposefully designed shows to maximize General Effect. That is the whole point of this scoring system. Whomever wins GE likely wins the gold. Everything should "bleed into" everything in a great show.

Absolutely agree with that. Even as far back as 15 years ago... I had a short conversation with Doug when I was marching and he was talking about the lack of awareness by the audience that they were actually listening to fragments of music from other portions of the show that were purposely inserted in the counterpoint. It's not important that the audience or judges notice it... but it is important that it's there, because it makes the show a show, rather than a short concert of works. And he is still doing it... very, very masterfully. The only other person that I can think of that may have done it better (or at least longer) was Wayne Downey. As for 2013... I was just rewatching some of that show this evening... randomly... and I was stunned at how much of a contending show that actually was. If there is an underrated Bluecoats show... it's 2013.

Well, obviously, the intent of the arrangements and concept is to emphasize the soloists by having the greater corps perform a slow burn backdrop. Without the soloists, it's drab. Without the backdrop, it's overkill. And that is exactly why the three company fronts have such an impact.

I agree. Most people who are not drum corps nerds like us would barely even recognize that Bluecoats is playing those selections. If anything, the range of their arrangements is VASTLY more diverse than the original source music. If anything, it proves to me that there are some extremely experienced and talented arrangers in Canton.

I said last May that Bloo's show would contain some game changers. Those are: 1) speaker setup 2) spread pit with earpiece monitors 3) advanced stage setup with mic usage 4) overall electronics integration to the point of creating sound/harmonic/melody canvas with three equal parts: brass, perc, electronics 5) uniform/no headgear 6) prop usage and design integration 7) use of trombones in so many different ways and all of them germane to the overall effect I suspect all of those items will be copied by others in some way. The hardest is #4, and it's probably the most important going forward, as drum corps moves to an ever-expanding theater-like experience. All for the good, IMO.

Thus the title, Down. Side. Up.

Let's not forget the overall concept change, and visual choreography introduced by Star in 1993.

They think it helps them underachieve. Without cell phones, the members can focus as much as possible as being a shadow of what their predecessors were.