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What astonishes me to no end, and is something I will never understand, is why individuals like Mike D who clearly prefer to have no distinguishable difference between drum corps and marching band, are incapable of simply enjoying marching band in its numerous available venues. But no. You would rather spend your time immersing yourself in an activity that you clearly don't care for given that it is evidently "missing" something. Oh well, when it comes down to it I'm really not of the camp the believes woodwinds will ever be allowed. There continues to be almost no support for it, and the overwhelming opinion of those who matter, ie. the voters, is that drum corps should continue to exist without woodwinds. Hope you're able to squeeze some bit of enjoyment out of the sub par activity that is drum corps Mike, but don't put TOO much effort into it. BOA is waiting.

If it was something like "CRYYYYSSSTTTAAALLLL!!" or "SPANK ME" I would agree.....but it was ALSO Regiment fans that made "I AM SPARTACUS" so memorable and wonderful in 08. I'd MUCH rather hear "BEEF" (96 Cadets), "HUH" (83 BD), and of course "VANGUARD" than have a stadium full of people sit on their hands....this isn't a concert hall.

Unless your name is Melissa.

de gustibus non est disputandum

Ars est celare artem.

That's because somewhere along the line you were taught that art had to be boring.

Ok...this deserves an answer. It is a well conceived and thought out dissection of the talking points. I would answer this. None of what you speculate about matters in the discussion. Drum corps has seen the success from marching band competitions and wants some of that. What they have continually realized is that the marching band audience (students and their parents are there only growing demographic. Us older phartes die. We need to be replaced and who wants to watch a non-American Idol, Katy Perry, Glee, marching pageant? The only sustaining answer is...band geeks. So, over the past 15 years, the powers who get to decide, decided. They decided to be super marching bands. They decided they needed new audience in a growing demographic in exchange for a diminishing part of a dying demographic. They want to be super marching bands. Some of us will still stay until we die <read: me>. Others will not. And guess what happens. Madison 2010 happens and it makes us happier than the norm. 2008 Regiment happens and it makes us jump out of our seats. Those special moments are still there. But, the bass player in Spirit from 2009, I think it was...that might be special to my 25 year old band geek son. So, that might be more of his...moment. I stopped long ago deciding for him what was best, or real, or important. We have an agreement...he doesn't decide that for me and I for him. Deal. So, we have drum corps still. We have two main circuits and fledgling startups. I believe we are in far better straights than we were in the early-mid 1990s. So, I get a glass and it's not a koolaid flavor on the top of my list. It's still koolaid and it's still cold when I drink it. My thoughts to you sir after your excellently crafted synopsis of the main points of this very long thread.

Man, I have never thought about betting on drum corps like horse racing. I really want to do that now!

whoever scores highest at finals

To be fair, though, that does engender a corresponding mercenary attitude from performers. If the corps isn't going to show loyalty, why should the marching member? Mike

All the time. School admissions, scholarship applications, heck, real money when it comes to grants and competitive commissions. Art is judged and evaluated in a multitude of ways *every single day*.

...or failed an art class, lost an auction bid, had an article to an art magazine rejected, wasn't able to sell a painting, or who's art generally just kinda sucks. Art is easily judged and critiqued every single day, and has been since the dawn of man.

You missed my point by such a huge margin that it didn't even register on your radar. Let's try again. My point is NOT "how should drum corps be defined." It is much more simple than that ever raging debate. My point IS, why change something so that it turns into another thing that already exists. DCP seems to love analogies, so here you go. It's like taking a fruit basket with apples and oranges in it, removing the oranges and replacing them with apples. Why? Well because you prefer apples, and more of what you like is better, right? Even though there were already plenty of apples to enjoy. Guess what, that's fine right up until you talk to the folks who really like the oranges and don't want to see them eliminated because YOU prefer apples. I don't know how else to put it. I have never ever ever ever ever heard a competent argument in support of eliminating one art form to create more of another art form that already exists. It always boils down to some skewed argument about who makes the decisions and who defines drum corps etc... So, answer the question on it's face if you will. Why should one art form be eliminated in favor of expanding another art form already in existence. Here's another one. If you love marching band so much, why not simply watch marching band. It would be like my going on to MBP and lobbying that all marching bands should eliminate woodwinds because I prefer the sound of them without. What the pro woodwind crowd refuses to admit is that they are changing one activity into another if they get their way. It's as if they already see no difference between marching band and drum corps, and thus are unaffected by the idea of two separate entities and one being changed into the other.

anticipate a total style change from avon world guard and they will no doubt make the old timers cry "tears of joy" as they serve up a big ladle of that familiar old drum corps chestnut "strawberry soup" by don ellis!

Combines were a godsend. Having to thresh that wheat with your bare hands and a scythe, then bundle and bale it? Awful.

Absolutely spot on.

..and neither do you..even with almost 20k in posts. Have to agree Drum Corps has always been a type of Marching Band...but there was a time not too long ago it was distinct. Sad, to lose variety but I suppose those that don't like a variety of art forms like vanilla and only vanilla lite. Such closed minds.

Says the person with almost 20k in posts here. I believe I have read a few books regarding people repeating things over and over....we sure need a drum corps snopes site.

Actually, DCI died in 1985. I know that's the case because when I joined drum corps in 1975, people were saying DCI had ten years left, tops. Everything since 1985 has apparently been an apparition in our collective minds.

All things being equal (such as reliability, honesty, work ethic, etc...) During the audition process if a vet scores an 89 and a rookie scores an 89, the vet should get the spot. During the audition process if a vet scores an 94 and a rookie scores an 89, the vet should get the spot. During the audition process if a vet scores an 89 and a rookie scores a 94; the rookie should get the spot. So, a vet has a 66% chance at the spot and a rookie has a 33% chance. Seems fair to me.

Like almost everything in this world: follow the money.

I'm assuming TCU was stripped for time during the Rosebowl so they just did Malaguena, but here's the full show from earlier in the season. It's not exactly DCI standards by any means, but it is most definitely based off of the arrangement from Cadets 03. They open up the show with "El Toro Caliente" from Madison's 95 show too. Malaguena starts around 4:20 in the vid. BTW I am SOOO happy TCU won that game

Because it's DCP

so, if this is a "mini-camp" does that mean there's a height requirement.......like no one over 5'4"??????

####. shield were not deployed in time

which posts. cause then we can link them all together in one big report to the mods

the 9th Plan in the book of Plans?

...Not at my city's symphony.

and guess what Mike..I have too. I got a lot of #### on here for not gushing over Cadets 03...but that show fills that bill to a tee. but something new can often fail as well. it's all in how it's designed.

Exactly. There are literally thousands of orchestral works that haven't been played, hundreds of jazz charts, and dozens of quality movie scores (that licensing would allow) that are just begging to be transcribed for the medium.

Or take out your phone and have it tell you the title and artist.

An "excellent" piece isn't necessarily one that the audience immediately recognizes, gets into, and can hum the first time they see that corps in the season, just one that they do so with the third time they see that corps in the season.

Agreed.

Whatever a design team chooses, make sure to start by picking excellent musical choices as a foundation. Every time. Please.

Correct...which is why I said "seem."

Maybe not just a list, but a machine learning algorithm that could determine the entertainment value of a show from the structure of its brass book isn't entirely implausible. If I ever need another Ph.D., I'll give it a go.

Let me get my master's thesis out of the way first.

I've often maintained that there's a very clear method of distinguishing a show that is overall entertaining with one that is not. In the former, the performers and the audience seem equal parts of the production. In the latter, the audience is simply a group spectators. It's also very easy to distinguish music that communicates to the audience well (Madison 1995) and music that doesn't (Cavaliers 2009). Luckily, most of it is based on natural and mathematical properties, and there's even a whole field of study devoted to describing and utilizing them.

Cavies 95 and 97 (most clearly in 97) some guy yells "Baloney!" I'm pretty sure it is not "Splooie" it is clearly three syllables.

to date the post of 2011

Sounds like North Penn HS...one of the best USSBA bands.

I wonder how much business it does too. As for DCI...not IMO. But..it DOES have an audience, apparently.

When shows were more local...and tied to a community event, like a Fireman's parade, July 4th, some sort of local celebration like a county fair, etc...you'd get some locals who wandered in because the drum corps show was part of the overall event. Plus there were the kids from other corps and the drum corps alums who filled out the crowd. Today it seems that most shows are stand-alone events, so those locals who were not really corps fans are no longer a major part of the mix. Now at shows I see primarily corps alums/fans and lots of band members...by the busload. Is it better? Worse? Or just different? Depends on your own POV. As for DCA, I have attended the Grand Prix a bunch of times, and IMO the audience at that particular show is less diverse than the DCI shows, as you see relatively few band kids...it's mostly corps alums and old-time fans, at least from what I have seen at that one show. Jeff is right about the Barnum...I judged GE Percussion at that show 20 years ago, and it was more like the old days than other shows. I guess the question is whether or not there are enough of those type of events these days...that would like to support a corps show...and who have the $$$ to do so.

That is GREAT for you folks. Good luck!

I'd take the time to respond to this but I'm too busy admiring the art on my mirror right now from the zit I just popped.

whoever scores higher than BD at the same show does it

I refuse to vote as the first question is invalid. Neither Bluecoats or Crown will get a ring in 2011. FACT. Cavies will end BDs winning streak.

Are we talking about the fancy pants G8 blow your budget we are better than you shows...or are we talking regular season shows....or either. How about this, whoever outspends the Devil$ has the best chance of overtaking them.