androidx2 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 i wasn't trying to take anything away from the cabs. i didn't see the show. i was just trying to make a point. i'm sure the cabs earned it. i was just saying a lot of things go into the outcome of a show. like i said i wasn't making any excuses for anybody. i guess i shouldn't have used that as an illustration. my apologies. No need for apologies. I see the point you were making and your right.. there are many factors that determine the outcome, a good number of which are off the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I disagree. I can see body posture issues on video. I can see fundamentals being taught but not necessarily applied. I can see spacing issues. I can see people timid or not knowing their drill sets. I can see a poor guard design or poor gaurd intergration. I can see a guard do their work poorly. So much of what goes into the sheets is visual. The videos allow you to repeat sections or watch the show over and over. The fans in the stands only see what they see once. They may miss something that happened on side A when they were watching side B. The could be blinded by a fantastic guard and miss the mess in the percussion. So I respectfully disagree with "having to be there". Its bunk!!!!!!!!! well then i guess we should just have the judges stay home and send them a video. c'mon man. i know you know better then this. you just want to stay home and not go to a show and then crtique from you computer. it can't be done. now this whole line of reasoning is getting extremely idiotic. time to give it up ed. if ya want to argue then be my guest but i personally give up. it ain't worth it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This crap again? Let me assure you. There is a lot you can learn by reviewing Recaps and watching performances via the internet. There are people that actually attend the shows that post reviews and some of them really have no clue what goes into the judges scores and the criteria for judging the performances. So which is the stronger of the two? I guess you have to decide that for yourself. So while I see where you are coming from to a degree. I respectfully disagree with you. yes, you can predict scores based on last year and claim accuracy even when shown it's not accurate 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I disagree. I can see body posture issues on video. I can see fundamentals being taught but not necessarily applied. I can see spacing issues. I can see people timid or not knowing their drill sets. I can see a poor guard design or poor gaurd intergration. I can see a guard do their work poorly. So much of what goes into the sheets is visual. The videos allow you to repeat sections or watch the show over and over. The fans in the stands only see what they see once. They may miss something that happened on side A when they were watching side B. The could be blinded by a fantastic guard and miss the mess in the percussion. So I respectfully disagree with "having to be there". Its bunk!!!!!!!!! you should apply to judge. In fact, you could be the first certified judge to just work off of what you see on the Fan Network. You'd save DCA a ton in travel! Edited July 26, 2012 by Jeff Ream 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) you should apply to judge. In fact, you could be the first certified judge to just work off of what you se on the Fan Network. You'd save DCA a ton in travel! Party 1: Hello, what do you do with your time? Party 2: I adjudicate drum corps shows! Party 1: Oh, you must enjoy the travel. Party 2: Travel? No, I work out of my home! Edited July 26, 2012 by bill 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Cabs show seems more on the "safe" side than MBI? Geez, Cabs are still moving long after MBI has boarded the bus. Perhaps from a design standpoint, MBI's show does seem to have more of a theme, but the drill just doesn't move much. I see where you are coming from but what MBI doesn't do moving wise... they make up for in body, horn moves, etc. That is just as hard if not harder to clean than a drill move. Now based on video (yea yea, Ive seen the previous argument)... there was not much of that at Bridgeport for MBI. However, there wasnt much in Lewisberg last year but come finals, all the dead time was filled in. No doubt MBI has either A. changed drill to move more or B) has added some sort of visual interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I see where you are coming from but what MBI doesn't do moving wise... they make up for in body, horn moves, etc. That is just as hard if not harder to clean than a drill move. Now based on video (yea yea, Ive seen the previous argument)... there was not much of that at Bridgeport for MBI. However, there wasnt much in Lewisberg last year but come finals, all the dead time was filled in. No doubt MBI has either A. changed drill to move more or B) has added some sort of visual interest. I kinda think MBI drills in general seem to have lots of stop time, even last years finals. But I tend to be sort of a lone wolf in this opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron H Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) I kinda think MBI drills in general seem to have lots of stop time, even last years finals. But I tend to be sort of a lone wolf in this opinion. Yes, there is a fair amount of stop time. And it's intentionally done to emphasize the musical book. I know this because I've been intimately involved in their design decisions in the past. This is a philosophy that MBI has had for years. If you don't care for it that's perfectly OK. Go back to the DCA videos of 2005 (That's an MBI show that is VERY underrated in my opinion!) or earlier to see what I mean. Count it out for yourself. The stop times that MBI employs are rarely more than 16 counts. Most of the time it's only 8 counts. Sometimes it's 32 counts. And it's not because they can't play and move at the same time. Watch the shows carefully. They play difficult parts on the move as well. It's all in the total package of the design. And pay attention to the large amount of sequential movement. That's also part of MBI's hallmark and that may contribute to the impression that there is more "stop time" than there actually is. I dunno, maybe MBI's shows don't follow the usual expectations of traditional DCA drills. They certainly don't follow the DCI "move constantly and quickly" formula. There really is a valid reason why this corps utilizes "stop time" to convey the emotional intensity of the music. That's part of their style. And in those moments Minnesota Brass uses a LOT of body movement compared to other DCA corps. (And that too creates it's own cleaning issue!) That's their unique approach to the art of drum corps. By the way, I hope people recognize that MBI's show this year utilizes an interesting drill trick as part of the narrative: The 1st minute of the show is identical to the last minute. Only everyone is in different positions. Edited July 27, 2012 by Ron H 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I kinda think MBI drills in general seem to have lots of stop time, even last years finals. But I tend to be sort of a lone wolf in this opinion. So did BD in 2009, oh wait, they won that year, sitting down. It's about staging as much as movement when it comes to visual design and adjudication. It's not about how many sets, or how many notes. If that was the case, everyone would be playing runs, moving every count, and running endzone to endzone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I kinda think MBI drills in general seem to have lots of stop time, even last years finals. But I tend to be sort of a lone wolf in this opinion. the sheets don't have a mandatory must move time. Remember the arguments against brigs during their run? Do what you do, do it clean, and do enough of enough things well to show you can. it works. Don't believe me, look at BD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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