yogitom Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please make it stop! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please make it stop! I'm with you on this one. It's time to move on. At least it is for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please make it stop! Agree. This is today... Yesterday is gone. Time to recognize that shows with half panels in July are not cutting into the GE Captions, as much as they are directly impacting the performance execution captions ( ie Percussion section execution just one small, but important, example ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Absolutely agree. How does this not at least in some way mean that the judges are judging the design of the show in the captions that are worth the most? On the sheets, performance captions are less than GE, which takes into account the product created by the staff. Corps could max out performance with 10.0 in brass, percussion, and guard, and still lose because the part of the product that they aren't responsible for -- the show itself -- isn't "effective." Conversely, it is absolutely possible to win DCI by winning GE and placing lower in the performance captions. Basically, high "effect" is necessary (and sometimes sufficient) to win, whereas high performance is not. Yes.. and to to illustrate the point... Carolina Crown won themselves a DCI Title a mere 2 years go with a 6th place finish in a performance execution caption ( Percussion ). By contrast, It is inconceivable, if not literally impossible, for a Corps to win themselves a DCI Title now with even a 4th or 5th place finish in a GE Caption ( let alone 6th ). As for the Cadets, last season's Show Design gave them no shot at a DCI Title. But this years does, imo. Edited July 2, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusic Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I really don't get your argument. No one on this forum is saying GE doesn't factor huge into the scoring. Sure, a spit clean rendition of Mary Had A Little Lamb performed with box drill won't win anything. But neither will the sloppiest, most out of time and tune rendition of Felliniesque. Corps' hold auditions for a reason, ya' know. All I am saying is that a large portion of the score is based on things that are 100%, completely out of the performers' hands. The original post I replied to was basically, "Whoever executes best wins," which is completely false. Whoever has the best show design and executes it wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) All I am saying is that a large portion of the score is based on things that are 100%, completely out of the performers' hands. The original post I replied to was basically, "Whoever executes best wins," which is completely false. Whoever has the best show design and executes it wins. I am not trying to be argumentative, I am really not, but the context of the discussion originally was with this year's top five (given that they all have amazing show designs) the corps who executes their show the best this year will win. Now we can argue the premise that the top five's show designs all are approximately equal in quality, although all unique and different, but it isn't totally unreasonable to make this assertion. I am willing to back off a bit because of the premise … at least a little … but execution and performance levels will either make the design shine to its full potential and thus allow it to be a candidate to win or at least medal, or hinder how the show is received, forcing the corps' ranking to fall. That’s it. I don’t think I am totally crazy for thinking along these lines. I may be crazy for other reasons, but I don’t think this is one of them. Edited to improve my grammar. Edited July 2, 2015 by Jurassic Lancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 On the sheets, performance captions are less than GE, which takes into account the product created by the staff. Corps could max out performance with 10.0 in brass, percussion, and guard, and still lose because the part of the product that they aren't responsible for -- the show itself -- isn't "effective." Conversely, it is absolutely possible to win DCI by winning GE and placing lower in the performance captions. Basically, high "effect" is necessary (and sometimes sufficient) to win, whereas high performance is not. I've read all your posts and I get the idea of what your trying to say, but you can't have one without the other -- and it all starts with execution (AKA performance). Design is important. Good design brings about General Effect. Going from concept (on paper) to actual GE on the field requires execution of that design. GE Visual isn't as effective when intervals are sloppy, when marching technique is inconsistent and poorly executed, when forms don't materialize, when the flags can't spin together or can't move in sync with consistent body work. The Visual caption and its' performance-related sub captions directly affect GE Visual. GE Music is directly affected by Brass, Percussion, and Ensemble Music captions. Poorly played impact points, choppy phrases, bad attacks and releases, balance issues, tonal inconsistency, phasing, and much more directly affect the audiences enjoyment and the impact of the music. I'd say that shows up on the judges GE Music sheet, not just on the performance captions. You couldn't just give the Blue Devils 2014 show to anyone and say, "There is your championship design. Go learn and you will win." How many corps could have PERFORMED that show? Cadets, Bluecoats, Crown. Going on what I saw last year, those might be the only 3 that could have...maybe. You see, BD won more so because of performance, not design. The design itself was great, depending on your tastes in drum corps, but it could have been a disaster if the corps couldn't perform such a show. It's the performers that brought that design to life, and, in fact, it was the great performance capabilities that allowed BD's staff to make changes to the show (mid season) that added even greater weight to both performer responsibilities and GE possibilities. I agree that adult-created content is part of the game. The better the adult-created design (as you guys like to put it) then certainly the better chances the corps has of being successful. Then again, this is no different than a teacher's responsibilities in school, or a parents' responsibilities at home. We are the product of a good education, which involves teacher, parent, student, environment, and school infrastructure. The same is true in drum corps. The best have good equipment, facilities, funds, alumni and adult support, administrative staff, designers, caption heads, techs, and good performers. Ultimately, how all the above comes together in a PERFORMANCE is paramount to success. This is what we should want, just as we do in the schools. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogitom Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please stop already. Why don't you both agree to disagree and end it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please stop already. Why don't you both agree to disagree and end it. When did you become a mod? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 All I am saying is that a large portion of the score is based on things that are 100%, completely out of the performers' hands. The original post I replied to was basically, "Whoever executes best wins," which is completely false. Whoever has the best show design and executes it wins. No it's not completely false. It may not be the whole truth, but it's not completely false. General Effect suffers if music and visual are dirty. Execution helps both individual captions and GE. Sure, a well designed show is pre-requisite for the gold. But having that alone doesn't mean you're taking home a ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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