Cadets 2017

[Jeff Ream]

Blue ribbons were worn in support of the Reading Buccaneers who lost a young tuba player this summer...sometimes some of us seem to forget that drum corps is a close-knit activity and family...GH is no different in that regard and not heartless as some would like to portray him IMO.

the night before Reading's home show, a young tuba player passed away suddenly. Coming off the field, C2 lined up in the side 2 end zone, while Cabs and White Sabers lined up on side 1, to watch the Bucs perform and cheer them on. as Bucs trooped off, White Sabers set up to play You'll never Walk Alone.

[Jeff Ream]

As xandandl rightly notes, it wasn't.

I wonder what would have actually happened if they did the encore anyway. What would the fine be for eleven more minutes of "noise"?

DCA could have fined, so could the city. and really, you want out of that neighborhood as early as you can get

[cixelsyd]

For instance, can I say that the exuberance for C2's win might be tempered by the knowledge that 8 members of the weekend's judging panel judge for for YEA?

Interesting. But for greater context, can anyone tell us how many of the 2015 panel were judging for YEA!... or 2014... 2013... 2012?

[cixelsyd]

I stand by my point, however. It derives from years of DCP reading in which Hopkins is treated like no one else. The standards for this site for how individuals should be treated have clearly and consistently been lowered where he is concerned. I would argue that they have been violated numerous times and that the participants on this board are culpable for allowing it to happen.

I am not saying the post that launched me into this discussion today violates DCP terms specifically. What I am saying is it reflects a disposition among many posters to treat Hopkins in a way we wouldn't want for ourselves and wouldn't allow for others. There certainly is nothing else like it on DCP. Other posters, other people in drum corps aren't subjected to ugly and unfair scrutiny he is.

You can say there is more material to scrutinize - and there is. But as I said before, he's only running two marching bands and making a difference in hundreds of young people's lives. The fact that he's transparent and occasionally sloppy in in language doesn't absolve us from our obligation to treat each other with respect.

HH

First, for the sake of accuracy - no, he is not "only running two marching bands". The YEA! organization includes several other programs, most notably a circuit for scholastic marching band competition regionally and in other scattered locations nationwide. He has also been involved in DCI governance in a number of ways, authored significant rule change proposals, and spearheaded the G7/MiM project. I do find it ironic that at the same time you complain about how Hopkins is treated here, you minimize his contributions to the marching arts like this. Be fair!

(Oh, and the "two marching bands" are actually drum corps... details.)

More importantly, you also seem to minimize the root cause of scrutiny/criticism of the man. People I know who are "occasionally sloppy in language" also make an effort to correct themselves on those occasions. From the number of corrections Hopkins has offered, it seems to me that he almost always says what he means.

I have no problem with his posting about the 2016 C2 experience. I am glad to hear it, to be honest. I agree with you that xandandl was reading way too much into it. But after having seen enough posts here misread in similar fashion, my own included, I do not see this particular treatment as disproportionately unique to Hopkins. If this is your "last straw", good thing you did not visit DCP while the staff changes were being announced, or while Cadets were being disparaged for "merely" being top 6.

[N.E. Brigand]

DCA could have fined, so could the city. and really, you want out of that neighborhood as early as you can get.

Eh, I've walked from my hotel downtown to the stadium and back for each Prelims and Finals of the past three years, i.e. after dark on six occasions. As long as you're not heading in the other direction from the stadium (made that mistake when scouting out the area my first year), it's fine, particularly when there are lots of people coming and going. Plus the police presence has been huge. And the neighborhood has been getting some small improvements. There are some new homes right across the street from the stadium, for instance.

What I was wondering, which probably no one here knows, is just how big the fine would be. YEA might think it worthwhile to pay, say $250 (reimbursing DCA for the expense), to treat a number of people to an extra performance--particularly if they could tell all the C2 parents, who probably number 100 or more and would surely each cough up $5 apiece--YEA/DCA might even make money. But obviously not if the fine is much larger than that.

[garfield]

That was the first time I ever saw that mentioned here on DCP.

Plus, I was responding to the below statement. IMO the parts in red are veiled digs at C2's accomplishment, and make it look like Hoppy and the judges are hiding something unseemly. Judges judge all over the place, and USBands happens to be a large circuit with a lot of shows. I personally doubt that any judge, let alone 8 of them, are going to throw away their honesty over a couple of band show assignments. As to the part about Hoppy "not disclosing those facts", I doubt it even crossed his mind, while the statement makes it appear as if he made a conscious decision to hide something. IMO it is in poor taste, and not like most of the great posts I have seen from garfield.

"For instance, can I say that the exuberance for C2's win might be tempered by the knowledge that 8 members of the weekend's judging panel judge for for YEA? I'm not taking away from his exuberance because, obviously, he knows that fact. Is it a reflection of him personally that he doesn't disclose those facts as readily as he does his personal reflections of the corps win? Is it a personal attack if others do?"

I'm a sensitive guy; I don't like to disappoint anyone. Maybe it's a result of my job where disappointment can mean real dollars.

My comments were not a dig at C2's accomplishments but they were a reflection of Hop and his public comments.

Also from my job I highly value full disclosure and transparency - which is the point I was trying to make about Hop and using the judging panels as the example. Hop seems to have never learned the old Paisan sage of "Don't hang the family laundry out on the line", so he apparently isn't convinced that darn-near everything about his non-profit org is going to be known. The panels this weekend are just the example.

I don't contend that there is collusion among Hop and the judges, but I'm also not going to ignore human nature, either. You may diminish the judges work with YEA! as a "couple of band show assignments", and you be ultimately right to do so in that context. But looking at the reality of the situation I'm not so disposed to suggest that a particularly tough critique won't be remembered by Hop when it comes to assigning YEA! judging assignments. Maybe you can. I also know that, generally speaking, being a highly-qualified band judge still does not likely put one in the 1% category of incomes so, to at least some degree, the judges are using judging fees to supplement their income.

Regardless, at the very least, transparency is due and needed when Hop starts to publicly proclaim his feelings for his group's accomplishments, and I do believe it was incumbent upon him to somehow reveal the facts. As Jeff said (and I know you know, Mike) declarations of affiliations are made in the name of transparency. I would think a completely fair and honest commentary by Hop would include something creative like: "Wow, I hope those judges are as hard on the USBands competitors as they were on us tonight!".

But mostly I don't want to be nit-picked as a hater when I retort to something Hop says. HH's original pique with this thread is based on the seeming negativity but, specifically in the instance that I exampled, Hop could have prevented my "negativity" by being fully-disclosed with the facts related to the judging as he knew them when he made the comment.

The issue of fairness, nepotism, and judge's pay disclosure is likely fodder for another thread. That it reflects on how Hop speaks publicy is pertinent here if it affects other corps like Minnie Brass, Colts, or Academy.

IMO, anyway, and with complete deference to you and the other mods.

Edited September 8, 2016 by garfield

[garfield]

Eh, I've walked from my hotel downtown to the stadium and back for each Prelims and Finals of the past three years, i.e. after dark on six occasions. As long as you're not heading in the other direction from the stadium (made that mistake when scouting out the area my first year), it's fine, particularly when there are lots of people coming and going. Plus the police presence has been huge. And the neighborhood has been getting some small improvements. There are some new homes right across the street from the stadium, for instance.

What I was wondering, which probably no one here knows, is just how big the fine would be. YEA might think it worthwhile to pay, say $250 (reimbursing DCA for the expense), to treat a number of people to an extra performance--particularly if they could tell all the C2 parents, who probably number 100 or more and would surely each cough up $5 apiece--YEA/DCA might even make money. But obviously not if the fine is much larger than that.

My concern wouldn't be the fine, per se. It would be the city saying "Ya' know, with all the nightmares that this brings to the city, we just don't need to accept rule violations. You're done. Find someplace else to hold this event. Goodbye."

That's likely not worth it to DCA.

Maybe a better answer is to move the show start time up by 15 minutes?

Edited September 8, 2016 by garfield

[Hrothgar15]

Cadets2 just won their first DCA Championship with Molloy also serving as their trumpet soloist. He also marched with The Cadets from 2001-2003. "

From what I can tell he's actually playing a soprano? This is the most confusing picture I've seen in a while.

This has got to be the first time someone in a Cadets uniform has performed on a G bugle in 17 years. Almost looks fake.

[Jeff Ream]

Eh, I've walked from my hotel downtown to the stadium and back for each Prelims and Finals of the past three years, i.e. after dark on six occasions. As long as you're not heading in the other direction from the stadium (made that mistake when scouting out the area my first year), it's fine, particularly when there are lots of people coming and going. Plus the police presence has been huge. And the neighborhood has been getting some small improvements. There are some new homes right across the street from the stadium, for instance.

What I was wondering, which probably no one here knows, is just how big the fine would be. YEA might think it worthwhile to pay, say $250 (reimbursing DCA for the expense), to treat a number of people to an extra performance--particularly if they could tell all the C2 parents, who probably number 100 or more and would surely each cough up $5 apiece--YEA/DCA might even make money. But obviously not if the fine is much larger than that.

Ok let's look at this from another angle. The city basically gives itself to DCA for free. The noise ordinance is s known factor.... Why #### off the hand that feeds you? As much as I pray not, DCA may go back there. Is a victory run worth screwing the relationship up?

[MikeD]

I'm a sensitive guy; I don't like to disappoint anyone. Maybe it's a result of my job where disappointment can mean real dollars.

My comments were not a dig at C2's accomplishments but they were a reflection of Hop and his public comments.

Also from my job I highly value full disclosure and transparency - which is the point I was trying to make about Hop and using the judging panels as the example. Hop seems to have never learned the old Paisan sage of "Don't hang the family laundry out on the line", so he apparently isn't convinced that darn-near everything about his non-profit org is going to be known. The panels this weekend are just the example.

I don't contend that there is collusion among Hop and the judges, but I'm also not going to ignore human nature, either. You may diminish the judges work with YEA! as a "couple of band show assignments", and you be ultimately right to do so in that context. But looking at the reality of the situation I'm not so disposed to suggest that a particularly tough critique won't be remembered by Hop when it comes to assigning YEA! judging assignments. Maybe you can. I also know that, generally speaking, being a highly-qualified band judge still does not likely put one in the 1% category of incomes so, to at least some degree, the judges are using judging fees to supplement their income.

Regardless, at the very least, transparency is due and needed when Hop starts to publicly proclaim his feelings for his group's accomplishments, and I do believe it was incumbent upon him to somehow reveal the facts. As Jeff said (and I know you know, Mike) declarations of affiliations are made in the name of transparency. I would think a completely fair and honest commentary by Hop would include something creative like: "Wow, I hope those judges are as hard on the USBands competitors as they were on us tonight!".

But mostly I don't want to be nit-picked as a hater when I retort to something Hop says. HH's original pique with this thread is based on the seeming negativity but, specifically in the instance that I exampled, Hop could have prevented my "negativity" by being fully-disclosed with the facts related to the judging as he knew them when he made the comment.

The issue of fairness, nepotism, and judge's pay disclosure is likely fodder for another thread. That it reflects on how Hop speaks publicy is pertinent here if it affects other corps like Minnie Brass, Colts, or Academy.

IMO, anyway, and with complete deference to you and the other mods.

Well, Hoppy's job in his posting is not to satisfy the nit-pickers on DCP who pick apart every word he post, and in this case doesn't post. In a retrospective congratulatory post to the C2 members, why EVER would anyone expect Hoppy to list out every possible item you...or anyone might want him to post. That is just plain Monday-morning quarterbacking, IMO.

It is no secret that judges in drum corps also judge in various band circuits around the country, including USBands. If you don't trust them to remain honest in their evaluations, there is not much I can say to that. You REALLY think those folks are going to be hedging their scores and commentary because of some band assignments? Or that Hoppy is going to blackball judges who he may disagree with regarding evaluations of either of his drum corps?

I don't really this particular post as going against the guidelines, BTW...I just think you are dead wrong in your expectations of Hoppy's posts and your viewpoint on judge integrity.