cixelsyd Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: Maybe they just decided that A&E added value to the shows and contribute to a more professional and pleasing production, and they are rewarding the groups that are taking advantage of these new options to create better products? Maybe it's as simple as accepting that the judges and designers believe A&E makes corps sounds better and assists with clarity of intent? If A&E is all the wonderful things you say, then it is not an "option" - it is necessary. And to be clear, it is perfectly valid to propose a change to the idiom on the basis of it being an improvement. What I find objectionable is the bait-and-switch aspect, when the change is proposed and accepted as an "option", then shortly thereafter becomes ordained as an "improvement". Quote Drum corps is a niche activity. Well, the marching arts as a whole is a niche activity, with drum corps being a small subset of that. To suggest that there is some conspiratorial lobbying going on to change the rules just to sell field systems to 30 or so units, is insane. The marching music market is over 10,000 units. Showcasing products in DCI is one way to market to the worldwide marching music activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, E3D said: Who said Conspiracy? There have been assertions that Dennis is pushing something because he is associated with Yamaha...that would qualify as a "conspiracy" theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tedrick said: I have a question on how the pre-recorded tracks are dropped into the show -- is there basically one continuous track that the corps plays along with, or are the individual samples "dropped" in real time - ie someone presses a key on a keyboard -- I would think this would be really tricky from a timing sense --- it would seem to make more sense if the accompanyment track is a single track that the sound board op begins at the very beginning of the show -- Does anyone know how this is done? A single track would be nearly impossible to get the timing right on, not to mention the need to edit every time beats were added to the show or things changed. What's most likely happening (each corps might approach differently) is that there are many samples that are triggered at specific times, and run for short time periods depending on the effect desired. The last year I taught was 2014, but then the rule was that anything with a rhythmic intent needed to be triggered every beat, and vocals in time had to be triggered every syllable {or something like that, it's been a minute}. Either way, triggering shorter samples more often is easier to manage from a timing and performance perspective. For my groups that could easilyhave been 100 samples for a show, depending on the complexity of the program. Edited August 9, 2019 by MarimbaManiac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: The twisting and conspiracy theorizing that some people are grasping at here would be hilarious if it wasn't so nutty. Maybe they just decided that A&E added value to the shows and contribute to a more professional and pleasing production, and they are rewarding the groups that are taking advantage of these new options to create better products? Maybe it's as simple as accepting that the judges and designers believe A&E makes corps sounds better and assists with clarity of intent? Drum corps is a niche activity. Well, the marching arts as a whole is a niche activity, with drum corps being a small subset of that. To suggest that there is some conspiratorial lobbying going on to change the rules just to sell field systems to 30 or so units, is insane. No conspiracy. But yes, they believe. All others are nuts, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: If A&E is all the wonderful things you say, then it is not an "option" - it is necessary. And to be clear, it is perfectly valid to propose a change to the idiom on the basis of it being an improvement. What I find objectionable is the bait-and-switch aspect, when the change is proposed and accepted as an "option", then shortly thereafter becomes ordained as an "improvement". The marching music market is over 10,000 units. Showcasing products in DCI is one way to market to the worldwide marching music activities. Except A&E was already legal in marching bands, and there are other places to reach more units like BOA and the larger state circuits. Besides the fact that even if you were able to sell 10,000 units a system, that pales in comparison to the business they do with the high school, universities, and professional groups selling instruments and actual pro audio for studios.I don't think that big of a market to be worth the trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, cixelsyd said: I did not see the theater-cast. Am I correct to understand that they devoted theater time to interviews pleading the case for amp-the-whole-corps, amp-every-solo, and/or other uses of electronics? Something to note about the interviewer - according to yamaha.com, Dennis DeLucia is a Yamaha Performing Artist. They had Bluecoats' sound guy (the Cirque guy), Michael Klesch and Wayne Dillon (tonight's GE2 judge) talked for maybe 5 minutes. It was informative, not persuasive, in tone. Most of what they said are things you'd learn by reading DCP threads like this one. The biggest new material for me came from the judge. He specifically said: - the brass judge is only listening to the acoustic performance - you're allow to use pre-recorded brass as long as it lacks "rhythmic intent", while pre-recorded voice can have rhythmic intent. I thought it was a pretty good attempt by Dennis to get some of these ideas (like "sound reinforcement") explained to the larger DCI audience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: Except A&E was already legal in marching bands, and there are other places to reach more units like BOA and the larger state circuits. Besides the fact that even if you were able to sell 10,000 units a system, that pales in comparison to the business they do with the high school, universities, and professional groups selling instruments and actual pro audio for studios.I don't think that big of a market to be worth the trouble. On dci.org, Yamaha is listed as a "corporate partner" of DCI. I guess they consider it worth their trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedrick Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: A single track would be nearly impossible to get the timing right on, not to mention the need to edit every time beats were added to the show or things changed. Thanks - so each element is triggered in real time by some one on the synth or sound board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: On dci.org, Yamaha is listed as a "corporate partner" of DCI. I guess they consider it worth their trouble. While Yamaha might be an option for marching bands or Entry Level Amplification... The Speakers being used by some of these corps now are Speakers that are normally used at professional Outdoor Music Festivals.. They have a specific sound field that the Sound Designers used to fine tune the Sound output to make sure everyone in the stands get a good Stereo Sound (L,R) experience.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, tedrick said: Thanks - so each element is triggered in real time by some one on the synth or sound board? I am starting to doubt this.. Some of the sound patches Especially in the Second Movement of Bluecoats show,, has continuous sound that last for an entire Phrase... I'm starting to think that they might have sound patches that are pre-recorded to last an Entire phrase. So the isolated Entrances in the Drum Talk section for example are a grouping of 4-5 individual sounds with negative (silent) space inbetween.. And that those Sound patches are also triggered to coincide with "scene" changes from the main board where Individual Mics are turn on or off along with Level changes on the mics.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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