And the floodgates are opening

[skevinp]

4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

"i dont know many it would have taken to kick my ###....but i know how many they were gonna use"

“I had the right to remain silent…but I didn’t have the ability.”

[JimF-LowBari]

On topic: been following the SoA FB page and nothing at all for about a week. Last posts were someone thinking of suing over a theft allegation, ye olde “if you weren’t a member, you don’t know”, and other personal sniping back and forth.

Of course mods leave it up to help people form an opinion about the corps 😱

[Weaklefthand4ever]

2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

On topic: been following the SoA FB page and nothing at all for about a week. Last posts were someone thinking of suing over a theft allegation, ye olde “if you weren’t a member, you don’t know”, and other personal sniping back and forth.

Of course mods leave it up to help people form an opinion about the corps 😱

One of things that I have noticed about that page specifically is that even if you were a member, the gloves are off if you speak out against the loud minority. Several things on that page have kept me from posting:

1. I despise social media. Message boards like this are about as far as I will go because they are far better moderated.

2. A few of the old members are clearly experienced at social media harassment and bullying and have no qualms with posting their "alternate truth manifesto" bull^%$^ claiming that nothing has ever happened and that it's some sort of secret conspiracy to take down "The Family" (who I call the loud minority)

3. If you happen to be a vet, you are no less likely to be treated with any sort of disrespect if you speak out against the decisions, actions or lack there of that the corps has made. 

I stopped reading it. I made my peace with the fact that there are some absolute dullards who happen to also be vets. Thankfully I never marched with any of them in DCI that I can remember. Whether you marched Spirit or any other corps, or didn't march and are just a casual fan of the activity, this effects ALL of us. I'm sick to my stomach over all of this. 

This next paragraph is not directed at ANYONE in particular. If you read more into it than what is stated directly, then you are working too hard to find a thread on which to tie your boat anchor. 

I said from the very beginning of all of this that I do not want to see ANY corps, or DCI as a whole shut down unless they could not adapt to make the activity safe and fulfilling for the members, volunteers and staff. Attacking each other on semantics, phrasing and opinions of individuals carried from other posts from years ago (DCP posters have a long memory and super grumpy powers,) does not serve any of us well. I consider us all to be relatively intelligent human beings and reasonable (except us drummers,) in our opinions. When we dissolve into "snarkiness" we serve only self and stop serving our activity and the members who came before us and after us. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Weaklefthand4ever

[JimF-LowBari]

Can’t find the previous post (maybe in other thread) but comparisons between DCI and NFL structure. Washington Football team has been hit with various charges and NFL investigated. Head of NFL ruled NONE of the findings will be released unless NFL head and team owners agree to the release. (Wouldn’t some corps with problems love being able to hide info.)

Today Congress said not so fast, we want to see the findings because they can be hidden. 

Before anyone complains about politicians sticking their nose in, this happened before in the early 1960s. Redskins were last team to integrate and only did so because the would lose use of the municipal stadium if they continued to be segregated.

Edited February 5, 2022 by JimF-LowBari

[Weaklefthand4ever]

29 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Can’t find the previous post (maybe in other thread) but comparisons between DCI and NFL structure. Washington Football team has been hit with various charges and NFL investigated. Head of NFL ruled NONE of the findings will be released unless NFL head and team owners agree to the release. (Wouldn’t some corps with problems love being able to hide info.)

Today Congress said not so fast, we want to see the findings because they can be hidden. 

Before anyone complains about politicians sticking their nose in, this happened before in the early 1960s. Redskins were last team to integrate and only did so because the would lose use of the municipal stadium if they continued to be segregated.

ANY entity which essentially absolves itself and it's members from responsibility for their actions or lack of action, by allowing what I can only call "coverup by omission" should be held to account. Though this view may be idealistic and naïve, history has taught us that just because something was never spoken about doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I swear sometimes I think we live in the Wizard of Oz world. 

[JimF-LowBari]

17 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

ANY entity which essentially absolves itself and it's members from responsibility for their actions or lack of action, by allowing what I can only call "coverup by omission" should be held to account. Though this view may be idealistic and naïve, history has taught us that just because something was never spoken about doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I swear sometimes I think we live in the Wizard of Oz world. 

After 40 years of govt bureaucracy I still can’t get used to the CYA (cover your ###) and “it’s ok if no one finds out (or says anything)” mentality.  Then again I’m still proud of being called a liar during a 25 person IT issue conference call. I explained why there was a problem (while giving the one finger salute to the phone - pre-Zoom days). Next call the problem was fixed and person who called me a liar…. Gone

[Jeff Ream]

19 hours ago, skevinp said:

“I had the right to remain silent…but I didn’t have the ability.”

lets hope more kids dont have the ability to stay silent if this #### keeps happening

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

One of things that I have noticed about that page specifically is that even if you were a member, the gloves are off if you speak out against the loud minority. Several things on that page have kept me from posting:

1. I despise social media. Message boards like this are about as far as I will go because they are far better moderated.

2. A few of the old members are clearly experienced at social media harassment and bullying and have no qualms with posting their "alternate truth manifesto" bull^%$^ claiming that nothing has ever happened and that it's some sort of secret conspiracy to take down "The Family" (who I call the loud minority)

3. If you happen to be a vet, you are no less likely to be treated with any sort of disrespect if you speak out against the decisions, actions or lack there of that the corps has made. 

I stopped reading it. I made my peace with the fact that there are some absolute dullards who happen to also be vets. Thankfully I never marched with any of them in DCI that I can remember. Whether you marched Spirit or any other corps, or didn't march and are just a casual fan of the activity, this effects ALL of us. I'm sick to my stomach over all of this. 

This next paragraph is not directed at ANYONE in particular. If you read more into it than what is stated directly, then you are working too hard to find a thread on which to tie your boat anchor. 

I said from the very beginning of all of this that I do not want to see ANY corps, or DCI as a whole shut down unless they could not adapt to make the activity safe and fulfilling for the members, volunteers and staff. Attacking each other on semantics, phrasing and opinions of individuals carried from other posts from years ago (DCP posters have a long memory and super grumpy powers,) does not serve any of us well. I consider us all to be relatively intelligent human beings and reasonable (except us drummers,) in our opinions. When we dissolve into "snarkiness" we serve only self and stop serving our activity and the members who came before us and after us. 

one of those bullies messaged me threatening to ruin me. so i sent him my attorneys contact info and let him know his message had already been sent and i encouraged him to keep it up, as i'd love for him to supplement my salary after legal proceedings.

 

surprisingly i didn't hear back

[lowend]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:45 AM, Weaklefthand4ever said:

ANY entity which essentially absolves itself and it's members from responsibility for their actions or lack of action, by allowing what I can only call "coverup by omission" should be held to account. Though this view may be idealistic and naïve, history has taught us that just because something was never spoken about doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I swear sometimes I think we live in the Wizard of Oz world. 

DCI needs to take a look at what's going on with the Southern Baptists right now.  Decades of sexual abuse covered up and allowed to continue under the guise of "the churches are self-governing, independent organizations, and the Southern Baptist Convention only exists for three days each year with no power to defrock abusers because they are licensed by the local, independent churches."  Sure sounds a lot like "the corps are independent organizations that hire their own staff and we're just the show promoters."  It's not going to end well for either group.

[skevinp]

9 minutes ago, lowend said:

DCI needs to take a look at what's going on with the Southern Baptists right now.  Decades of sexual abuse covered up and allowed to continue under the guise of "the churches are self-governing, independent organizations, and the Southern Baptist Convention only exists for three days each year with no power to defrock abusers because they are licensed by the local, independent churches."  Sure sounds a lot like "the corps are independent organizations that hire their own staff and we're just the show promoters."  It's not going to end well for either group.

This, or at least the issue in general, begs some questions.  

When is something a guise or not a guise?  What makes an organization responsible for the actions of another?  The contracts between them that define their relationship?  The fact that one is associated with many?  Some level of endorsement or recognition?  Their name?  

There are organizations that have the legally contracted authority to control others, and there are organizations that are little more than fan clubs that provide sone service to interested members.  Where is the line drawn?  What are the determining factors?