cfirwin3 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, bluecoats88 said: What he actually said was in these early shows they aren't worried so much about getting an accurate number, ie. cavies are .5 ahead of Phantom in field percussion, but what they are trying to get correct is the order, ie. cavies field percussion was better than PRs as an example. so spreads and such aren't that meaningful in the early shows, as long as the corps are in the correct order of placement based on their performances. That sounds more like what I would expect them to discuss on the air... and it is the reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, jjeffeory said: I find it bizarre that there's this huge distinction between top 3 and top 6 ( or top 5) now. It used to be that there was a top 6. There still is. There have never been more corps (since very early in DCI) that can field a winning program than we have right now. It's just that a few of them are more consistent at getting the mix just right. I think that fans just talk in terms of the contending field year to year and it creates the impression of some great superiority. Was it 2009 where 8 corps had all won 1st over every other corps either directly or by competitive comparison? Groups have only gotten more proficient and talented since then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East9900 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bluecoats88 said: What he actually said was in these early shows they aren't worried so much about getting an accurate number, ie. cavies are .5 ahead of Phantom in field percussion, but what they are trying to get correct is the order, ie. cavies field percussion was better than PRs as an example. so spreads and such aren't that meaningful in the early shows, as long as the corps are in the correct order of placement based on their performances. I thought Vento was the one that said it. At the time I was really surprised she said, but I think it there is some truth to it. I actually had them placed exactly where the judges did (off on captions a little). I think those numbers become more accurate the more of them there are at a show, like the regionals. I've never been one to believe that "corps x" is usually around this spot, so we should put them there again. I remember when the Bluecoats were consistently 7-12. The years they moved up, they absolutely deserved to move up, and they absolutely deserve to be where they are currently.. at/near the top. Edited June 30, 2022 by East9900 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrow Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) I understood it as judges, when they're calculating the scores after a performance and/or the night, think how they'd rank their judged caption before writing down or solidifying a number. Edited June 30, 2022 by Narrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I would also suggest that the potential competitive group is much larger than 3 (it's more like 7 or 8). The issue in a particular season comes down to design. You gotta dance with the one that brung ya, and there's only so much alteration that groups can make before something is improved into a failure (there was a string of Cadet shows like that not too long ago, Crown 2014, Bluecoats 2018 etc.) You can have all the resources and just get locked out by design concepts, in fact that's most of the championship game every year. This is so true. I love your analysis by the way with all the comparison videos you have done. Great stuff! To your point here about design: You mentioned Cadets and I think about the quality brass and percussion ensembles they have fielded just a while back. Take 2007 to 2015 (maybe even 2016) and you look at a number of years where they were 1st or 2nd in percussion and brass (so they were clearly talented and could perform) yet design just crushed any chance of the show finishing above 3rd, and knocked them down to 4th or 5th on a few occasions. A few examples were 2013 where they won percussion and were 2nd in brass and 2nd in visual proficiency but they were probably lucky to take 3rd place overall. In 2014 they had great brass, percussion and marching but took 3rd overall when Bluecoats fabulous Tilt show knocked them down on Finals night. In 2015 they finished Semi Finals having won percussion and brass and yet were locked into 4th place. This sort of thing has happened to Carolina Crown as well. It just goes to show that you need the design and strength in all captions. Edited June 30, 2022 by jwillis35 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, Narrow said: I understood it as judges, when they're calculating the scores after a performance and/or the night, think how they'd rank their judged caption before writing down or solidifying a number. But that's not what Ms.Vento said. She said for the first couple of weeks the judges are interested in placement ,not scores. Also, as I understand it, regardless of where you are in a season, a judge is supposed to look at a show and score it based on the "sheets". That's all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchMello10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 My takes Crossmen- A Mobius Trip is an interesting concept and I look forward to the integration of the ordering gimmick throughout the season. Unfortunately, I didn’t find the musical arrangements to be nearly on par with the corps’ excellent showing from 2019. I think the writing for the Crossmen could use more melodic and harmonic interest in order to avoid a “cliche” sound at-least with regards to recent writing trends. Phantom- Easily the best Phantom show since 2012 and one of my personal favorites this season. Shaw’s writing demonstrates a VERY apparent difference and I really enjoy it. The vague show concept is something I don’t quite see coming through just yet but as a pure playing/movement spectacle this was pretty amazing. Special note to the ending drill sequence. Blue Stars- This was a very difficult first read for me, I’m not sold on this at all but I need to let this develop to the end of the season before passing judgement. Boston- Another powerhouse by Boston. The musical book translates WAY better with the visual package, which is one of my favorite so far this season. Realizing that this is way more of a literal depiction of Eden/Adam and Eve/Original Sin, the theme comes across very well. I also appreciated the drill demand during intense passages, despite the abundance of boxes with follow-the-leader drill. I found the ending company front very effective musically and visually as well. Cavaliers- Very interesting progression from last year’s design. Feels very cavaliers, corps staging makes them look small Bluecoats- As “trippy” as the concept and visual design is, the music sounded surprisingly safe to me. Not sure I dig it musically just yet but I’m sure it’ll grow on me towards the end of the season. Visually though this show is really incredible, especially the moment toward the first half with the giant wheels. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, MarchMello10 said: Bluecoats- As “trippy” as the concept and visual design is, the music sounded surprisingly safe to me. Not sure I dig it musically just yet but I’m sure it’ll grow on me towards the end of the season. Visually though this show is really incredible, especially the moment toward the first half with the giant wheels. I think you are spot on with this. There is some solid material in there with that competitive spark of difficulty... but there are an awful lot of sustained chord progressions and minimalist/layered ostinato patterns saturating the program. The Cavaliers nailed down a lot of historical wins with that kind of approach, and even the Bluecoats have had some success with it... but with Crown, Boston, Blue Devils, etc. out there, Bloo needs to bring the heat with respect to showy/flashy musical features that don't defer too much weight to electronic soloists. We need more scale patterns and runs. They would go a long way to write in some more Mello runs on the sustained sections and add a few trumpet embellishments. It shouldn't be hard to do... I hope someone from Bloo takes notice. With the great visual design on top of their GE, I would hate to see music suffer due to a minor lack of competitive content. Edited June 30, 2022 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchMello10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I think you are spot on with this. There is some solid material in there with that competitive spark of difficulty... but there are an awful lot of sustained chord progressions and minimalist/layered ostinato patterns saturating the program. The Cavaliers nailed down a lot of historical wins with that kind of approach, and even the Bluecoats have had some success with it... but with Crown, Boston, Blue Devils, etc. out there, Bloo needs to bring the heat with respect to showy/flashy musical features that don't defer too much weight to electronic soloists. We need more scale patterns and runs. They would go a long way to write in some more Mello runs on the sustained sections and add a few trumpet embellishments. It shouldn't be hard to do... I hope someone from Bloo takes notice. With the great visual design on top of their GE, I would hate to see music suffer due to a minor lack of competitive content. I’m glad you agree. With how interesting and incredibly unique the concept/visual package is, the opening in particular comes off as very stock and underwhelming to me. I think one of the best musical moments of the show is that triple-feel section during the section with the big wheels. I wish the whole show sounded as interesting as that. Ultimately, for how strange the visual presentation is, I wish the entire music book felt more “weird”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 All this debate just for BD to win it all, again 🙂 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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