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Phantom will no doubt find room for one.

Drum corps and marching bands are the same thing. Golf and drum corps are not. It is indeed silly to look at a billion dollar organization of professional golfers and try compare it to DCI.

it's not just the number of fans. You think AT&T is shelling out millions for Pebble beach just for live attendance? hell no, it's attendance and especially TV ratings. that's why you hear people cry when Tiger is out. tiger's in and healthy, ratings are up. That's why with golf you see AT&T, Mercedes, etc....You see blue chip sponsors in that "golfers age' demo...aka older adults, largely male, of a certain income range being targeted....that's why you don't see younger aged products advertised during big golf tournies.... The PGA, NASCar, any sport.....they draw in ratings, and they go after sponsors that fit their demos. DCI doesn't draw ratings, and it's demos are all over the map. You have the legacy fan, a fan of a mostly certain age and income range, you have the recent ageout aka the millienals, and then of course the kids marching. We are in the marketing world's view a headache.....we don't reach enough, and our target demo is split into 3.

My sister got me interested in Drum Corps. I started attending parades and so forth, while she marched with the Blue Angels Drum and Bell Corps from San Lorenzo, Ca., from the time I was 9, and thru my 13th year of my life. The one thing that always intrigued me were the tenors. From then on, I wanted to be in DC. I would take my set of sticks and CONSTANTLY play along with the album recording from Combine West '71. (Cavaliers show) God I loved SCV back then. In 1971, I had asked my sister to see if I could join the Blue Angels, I had the "fever" bigtime by then, but she was advised at the time, that I was not good enough to be a member of the Corps. That's cool, no worries....heh. Finally, her and I decided to join the Royalaires Drum and Bugle Corps (where I met Scott Johnson), from close by San Leandro, Ca. I auditioned, and was accepted to play bass in the drumline. Sis and I remained with the Royalaires until 1974, when the corps merged with the Stockton Commodores, to form the Royal Commodores, which lasted one season. Then came the turning point in our DC lives...........1975. She had always adored the Vanguard, as did I, but by then, I had grown an admiration for the Blue Devils jazz sound. So off I went to Concord, and she to Santa Clara. Then the fun began, she with her VERY conservative Vanguard, and me with the swashbuckling Blue Devils. SCV had just come off a DCI Champoinship year, and the Devils had just made a jump from 24th in '73 to 9th in '74. I always liked an underdog. :P Drum Corps from that point on was an interesting topic in our house, but Mom and Dad always stayed neutral, and did what most parents would do in that case, cheer for BOTH sides! In '75, SCV ended up in 2nd, and we (Blue Devils) in 3rd (we had beat SCV quite a few times throughout the year, including the World Open, and CYO Nationals leading up to Finals week), so no "blood" had been spilled.........yet. :P Then came 1976, the year that gave me SO much joy, yet so much sorrow also. For those of you who don't know, the 1976 Blue Devils dominated DCI in a way that no other had EVER done, as we swept all captions, and won by 2 FULL POINTS! What I will remember most about 1976, was the announcer in Philly......... "in 2nd place, with a score of nine zero, point seven zero........................the Madison Scouts!" - The world stopped for me and I'm sure the rest of us in the corps for a few moments. We all jumped, hugged, kissed (heh), threw our shakos in the air, ran around like little kids. Pure pandomonium had broken out. I can vividly remember the euphoria that was going through my body at that moment. At that particular retreat at finals, we were staged between the Scouts and SCV. At a time that I thought NOTHING could change what I was feeling, something did. As I made my way around the corps to congratulate my co-members, I looked towards the Vanguard, and what I saw, made the title seem meaningless. - My sister had been in DC since 1967. - She was my hero for twirling her baton, while the drummers drummed, and the bell players played, I LOVED watching them. - She had brought me to the activity that really gave me some direction and MUCH joy in my young life. - She tried desperately to get me into Blue Angels. - She brought me along to join the Royalaires. - SHE looked out for her little brother. What I saw that night in Philly, STILL chokes me up to this day. I saw my sister, standing at attention in the proud Vanguard traditon, her knee's buckling, overcome with emotion, trying to keep from breaking down, heart broken, exhausted, but she dug deep inside, and showed the pride that SHE had taught me. - In the span of 2 or 3 minutes, Time stood still for me again. Everything that happened in 1976, the hard work, the sweat, the thousands of hours of practice, meant absolutely NOTHING to me. The only thing I could focus on was my sister, and the pain that she had to be feeling that night. After the years of marching she had experienced, and was gracious enough to let her little brother "tag along", it was I who had just gone to the pinnacle of Drum Corps. I felt like someone had just ripped my heart out. It was not allowed to break the SCV ranks, especially at Nationals, or break any corps rank in general. I felt SO helpless, this was not a casual acquaintance that I was looking at in pain, this was my own flesh and blood, my sister. If I could have changed uniforms with her at that moment, I would have....afterall, SHE deserved it more than I did. I wanted SO bad to go over to her and hug her, tell her that they had given it all they could, that I loved her for what she had given me the opportunity to accomplish in DC. But I couldn't. Retreat had ended, SCV left the field, and my sis and I didn't see each other until we came home to Cali. I learned something that night in Philly, that heart was more important than winning. That giving was more important than receiving. My sister gave so many things to me in life, and in Drum Corps, including the championship in 1976. So I will take this opportunity to say........... Thank you sis, for on the night of August 21, 1976......it was you who was the champion on the field.

it's not what they have to do with golf. It's what they have to do with the target audience golf brings in.

true...but look at the Barnum show...for the last 2/3 years they dropped prices down to $5....and now, there's a huge chance the show goes under because Barnum Fesitval is hurting for $$.

No wonder we're so ####ed up

Rufus67; Thank you for your concern, for bringing this to my attention, and especially for being an outstanding member the past five years. Building this organization to the status it has attained is in great part due to the quality members such as you who desire for us to climb the competitive ladder with quality in all aspects. Please inform other members via the grapevine that a shortened tour is not going to happen; and to check the verification of that on our twitter feed, the Facebook page, as well as the Website which all went out this morning. Moreover, this was only 'briefly' discussed along with many, many possible ways to make sure the corps stays in the black and the financial costs to each member stays as minimal as possible. This corps is for you; it is our responsibility and duty as the administration to provide you with the facilitation of a quality environment; and while we are currently in fine shape, again to squelch any rumors, we are currently in fine shape, we are looking at possible preventative measures to make sure we do not have any future chance of organizational collapse like many, many other corps have done over the years. Again, thank you for being such a wonderful member these past five years. Respecfully, Stu Session

DCI could definately do a better job in marketing itself.. but I don't claim to have anything new up my sleeve thats unique or different that hasn't already been mentioned. At the end of the day however, it doesn't matter what DCI calls itself as an activity.. its whether or not its liked by more people or not. DCI has done a decent job over the years in developing and nurturing good relationships with the school Music programs,. its still not where it needs to be, but its definately improved itself here by leaps and bounds, and its relationships with the schools much better than BITD, imo. It could use more butts in the seats however. It struggles with this, and that needs to change, when we talk about the need to embrace " change" in my view.

In my humble opinion... Drum Corps is not a sport. It IS athletic... and perhaps even musical (at its best)... maybe even educational (hmm... is there anything in the world that ISN'T educational?).... Drum Corps is Marching Band for people with more time. Chuck Naffier

Oh, it has nothing to do with them. Thanks.

"...IT AIN'T WHISPER!!!! ... or, Findley!!!! ..." Oh man, there goes my guess for MajorFin. Those were the only 2 Hurcs bass drummers I ever exchanged words with back then. I recall getting ready for retreat at Stratford once, Whispers being close by. There was some inter-corps banter and Teddy Sasso called out something to him. Whispers gestured for him to come closer, smiled, and said in his best Greta Garbo, "Don't shout at me. I ain't deaf!" The youngster in the photo looks about 17. Possibly a Golden Bucs or Shoreliners draftee.

No, not odd at all. Those companies are not sponsoring golf for the sake of golf...they are sponsoring it to grab the people who watch and play golf. Think of the country clubs around the country...or world, really. These are the high-powered and wealthy people who have the resources to purchase the Mercedes and Caddies, and they control a lot of decision-making in the business world, such as computer systems (IBM) and shipping (UPS). That list in the link covers a lot of high-end corporations.

As a bass drummer, he was just an ordinary one... ... in other words, a straight bass drum player vs. rudi ... that's why he only has one stick ... one thing for sure ... IT AIN'T WHISPER!!!! ... or, Findley!!!! ... :-)

Who said DCI is not successful? Not every successful entity is in the billion dollar range. It is just silly to try and compare them.

Not one you wore Tony...that's a satin blouse...last worn in 71'. This pic is a bass drummer from 67'. Ray has already given a clue I was gonna use later!

And smell check... new with Office 2015...

And thank God for spell check!!!

I don't know this for absolute certainty (man, that is some bad grammar there...LOL)... but I think one of the reasons the Barnum drastically reduced ticket prices in recent years was to boost lagging attendance under the higher prices.

Let the record show that I stayed away from this opening...

Stu, while you crave a world where everything is black and white and nothing can ever deviate from a set definition, please realize the world has lots of greys.

I think we need to examine your definition of fun

Very astute.....66' was the last year we tucked...

nice uni. one of my faves.

Ok folks, Flickr has figured out my sly way of doing things and have now blocked that ability. (It took them long enough. lol) Anyway... I'll have to do this a different way. I'm trying all kinds of things... I'll have a new feature up soon... hang in there.

Ray, each post where Nanci features a new photo has this: The *Guess Who* Mailbox. That's a link to send the photo file via the e-mail on that PC. She prefers .JPG files. Sometimes I find historic photos on line and right click on them, do a "Save as" to my PC then send to Nanci. Give it a try.

All of those things going away is probably a good thing, in terms of member safety and corps well-being. Not having kids pass out during shows because of dehydration, or injuring themselves pushing buses, or the fear of kids being car accidents driving to and from shows. The demand may be different, but I'm sure anyone involved with the liability of the members is very happy that those demands are now gone. And yes, they still get eaten by mosquitoes at practices and shows. Swamp tour still exists, and Minnesota and Kansas are still around.

I can just hear the disclaimer now..."If your Corps maintains an ovation for more than 4 hours, don't bother calling your doctor; just pick up your Championship Trophy from DCI at headquarters."

really in the scope of things, drum corps was fun. it was hard and we all worked very hard. but really what's most important in life is family, friends and what you're job is / was. that is what made us what we are. drum corps is nothing but an idiom that we all did and love/ loved. it may have formed us in small ways . what we really got from it was friends and memories. at least thats what i got. oh , and i learned how to play and teach an instrument.

OK, we got Stan and Kathleen. Who's next? Nanci has run out of Sunrisers, Skyliners and Cabelleros. I know some of us have pix of notorious celebrties from other corps. Let's send her some. Childhood photos of some of the folks who post here could also be a challenge, not that any of us have changed a bit.

By it's very nature, Stu, cost-cutting during a downturn is doing exactly that - squeezing extra sheets from the roll of towels. The goal is to increase the revenue so you can buy another roll. Slingerland is right, IMO. Cost-cutting is working at the margins and threatens to distract from the primary goal of increasing revenue. What DCI is doing to increase online viewership has been hugely successful (last year's live finals broadcast is the example) and is a perfect example of where energy should be directed. They could have instead cut broadcast costs, or cheapened the production, but instead they focused on growth of viewership, and it worked exceedingly well. Centralized purchasing is good for efficiency and lowering costs, but nothing substitutes for getting more eyeballs and "selling more stuff".

Grammy, schmammy. I'd rather win the Dream.

Yeah Frank, but for anyone that has observed my "career" - I think I may be afraid of heights. Didn't do a lot of climbing so I haven't had to climb down much either. Can you picture me accepting something as cool as a Grammy? I ####ed up accepting entry to the HoF! With my balance I better stay on the ground. I have enjoyed the folks that have come and gone as I hold the ladder though...

"I'd like to thank all the little people without whom this wouldn't be possible..." Yes, Ray, it is always fitting and proper to thank the people we meet on the way up the ladder...because we're sure to meet them again on the way down.

Thanks Frank... This award means a lot to me. I'd like to thank all the little people without whom this wouldn't be possible... Tony, Freddy Rowan, Jimmy Cossetti... (cue the snare drum and hi-hat)

Interestingly, growing the activity and number of performance opportunities would allow corps more performances in a smaller geographic area, thereby allowing a smaller tour per corps without sacrificing the opportunity for performance fees for all. More corps, more performance, more kids actually lower costs. Growth is the answer.

It should be reiterated that DCI returns a fair amount (25% or more) of their revenue to the corps each year. In that regard they are serving the existing corps rather well (even as those beneficiaries claim "not well enough"). Where DCI fails is in the growth of the activity overall - a responsibility that has been relinquished to the individual corps with little (no?) success. There's little, if any, fat in DCI to trim. The corps from 4th place on down mostly survive hand to mouth each year and need the DCI payouts the most. The only answer to all of the participant's problems is to grow the activity, the number of corps, the number of performances, the attractiveness of the product, and the exclusivity that made the activity unique in a sea of increasing competitive marching bands.

To a very great extent, all of us became who we are because of our corps experiences. Whether you drive a PATH train, lock up bad guys, teach high schoolers, move planes around or shovel coal, you do it with drum corps intensity. And we were all in the right place at the right time. In 1980, when Cal Tjader won a Grammy, his band was on tour and he couldn't attend he presentation. As his producer (see, "right place...etc.", above) I was designated to accept for him. You have all seen this kind of drill. You walk up, a gorgeous model/actress/whatever gives you a peck on the cheek, you get a little statue, and thank people nobody has ever heard of. That being the case, I proceeded to thank, "John Sasso, Donald Angelica and Dr. Baggs, without whose help I would not be standing here." Theoretically, I was a stand-in for Cal Tjader, but the truth is I really represented Ray, Tony, Don, Tom, Andy, Stan, Fran, Kathleen, Nanci, Glenn and all our durm corps colleagues who, in the same circumstances, would say something quite similar.

Does the scholastic system consider marching band to be part of sports?

Apparently it wasn't to Tonya Harding.

The modern tendency toward pigeonholing activities into set-in-stone disciplines seems to me, at least, to be rather silly. I mean, I love a good discussion -- heck, a good ol' knock down, drag out fight, even -- as much as anyone. However, there comes a point where the reality that a square peg won't fit into a smaller round hole must be acknowledged (Ok...now we go back to the whole "Reality" discussion. Crap. Thought we were done with that one...). Figure Skating is primarily a sport which also has artistic tendencies. Drum and Bugle Corps is primarily a musical activity (Yes, yes, I know...other than guard...sheesh!! ) which, more than other musical "arts," also has athletic tendencies. (Which begs the next question(s): Are all sports athletic? Are all athletic activities "sport?" Inquiring minds really DO want to know!!!) Mallet players strike pieces of wood -- but that sure as heck doesn't make them carpenters (that is, unless Karen and Richard were mallet players as well las singers).

Shields up.....

And as it's been pointed out, that you're just ignoring. Tall pointy hats have always been around. Madison used tromboniums in 1980, Cadets sang in 79, Boston used a synth in the mid-80s, Garfield used a professional dancer, baton twirlers used to be a thing. Trumpets make it a marching band? What would an official name change accomplish? To make you happy? To appease you? Or do you have an actual goal in mind, or just being snarky in your age?

I'm not so sure. Upkeep on woodwind instruments is SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than upkeep of brass. Weather conditions, even a minor amount of humidity (let alone rain) could devastate any woodwind instruments (cork, pads, etc). WW's would essentially not be able to rehearse in any sort of inclement weather (i.e. drizzle, high humidity, etc). I think while adding timbres of woodwinds, or the "lets include everybody" mentality arguments might be appealing to directors, I would think adding them in any significant way to DCI would be too cost-prohibitive. Perhaps minimal woodwind instrumentation used as soloist or small ensemble moments could be effective and financially viable, but the cost to add full-on woodwind sections to corps would be very high, I would think.

I'm anxious to hear how much of a remake this will be. That swagger that the percussion had with Murray and Casella at the helm is much of what made the 2004 version work so well. The Rennicks will have to REALLY up their game to match it.