Leaderboard

So you missed the Caballeros, Buccaneers, and others. Your loss, IMO.

Some are, but many are and have made it overly clear that they are not. By overly clear, posting the same worn out arguments for years, annually, monthly, weekly *and weakly* about how it isn't drum corps anymore. I have said it before and I will say it again, if you don't like something walk away from it and let the people who still do like WHATEVER it is enjoy it. I don't understand why if you don't enjoy something anyone would spend so much time complaining about it. Life is too short.

There just seems to be more of a story here that's not wanting to be told.

Its not about one element. Its about the shows overall. Students tend to look at the shows of the 70's, 80s, and before as old shows that dont grab them. To be honest they laugh at them. You can say you don't want drum corps to turn into Bands of America's Summer Season, which i fully support, but we have to evolve the shows and their components. If it means adding these components to attract the younger audiences and designing them into shows well, then we gotta do it. Well designed effect don't stick out like a sore thumb. Cabs intro was great this year. The Bushwackers had some stuff that started pretty rough in the season, and then they refined it by finals time.

it's not a slap at the corps Jim...it's the slap at the #####ers and moaners who decry the changes and want their old time drum corps, but then never support the alumni movement. For all of the people on here over the 12 years of DCP #####ing like that....if half showed up at the alumni show, attendance would see 50% growth. Someone on one of the Facebook threads said 'well people are too hung over to get up and go" bull ####. I've been hung over and at the alumni show. it's just a #### poor excuse from those types of "fans"

This is it exactly. You hit the nail on the head. And no one HAS to use these. They just have the option now to. Santa Clara Vanguard the last few seasons has only used elex to amplify their pit, so has Blue Devils and many other top 12. Its not about synthesizing anything. And those who can't design a show before, still won't be able to design a show. Just because the Oakland Raiders stink at football, doesn't mean they dumb down the rest of the league do they?

You really think fans of Reading or Hawthorne or Minnesota won't be as rabid for their corps if they roll out electronics? I don't. Heck, five gets you ten that 95% of those same fan bases didn't even notice all three corps used amplification last year.

No question in my mind, some of the instrument and effects changes already introduced by DCI can be very successful for DCA, too. To me, the 2014 DCI performances were the best I've ever seen or heard ever since DCI was formed. The shows were greatly enhanced by the changes, for the most part. DCI also regained some respect for unbroken melodies, but that hasn't been a real issue for DCA all along. Regardlesss, the electronics, effects, etc. elevated the DCI product and gave those shows broader appeal. My concern is with DCA's much smaller audience base. A base that, if it becomes smaller, presents a greater problem for a DCA, than a DCI. The DCA base is absolutely older and traditional. The 'age' part is a significant issue for reasons already stated. I fully agree, DCA needs to 'freshen-up.' However, some of these same transitions will not be as easy for DCA corps and DCA's current audience base, as they were for a much more capable DCI organization. But, with patience and a more subdued introduction by DCA corps, changes like these will eventually pay-off, I think.

They absolutely could. You underestimate the power of today's high school corps-geeks.

now if their show hints have been about Paris, and Paris (France) is the City of Light, and Lights need energy... 1. will we be seeing a solar powered front ensemble generator for mics, synths, keyboards, and stuff??? 2. will they do BD one better than the LED lights in the props and give us a W. Carolina State-style light show, solar powered of course...??? 3. will their buses, equipment trucks, and vehicles all have solar panels on their roofs to power the food truck's efforts through California, Nevada, and back to Rockford??? Glad I voted, so far.

well, for those of you who don't like electronics in the pit, don't buy a ticket. To continue to grow and foster, the activity has to adapt to the people who aren't just buying tickets and paying registration fees now, but will buy tickets and pay dues five and ten years from now. Those of you whom are dinosaurs that want crappy G-bugles, symmetric drill, and marching timpani can simply stop attending events and bringing the atmosphere down with your constant whining about how "this isn't drum corps". Drum corps whether DCA or DCI is expected to lead the way in the marching arts. It simply can't do that when it stays stuck in its old ways. And if some of the naysayers in the stands have to go, then they have to go for the good of the activity. If you want to see the old style corps perform, go to the alumni spectacular. Some of them are pretty awesome. Cabs Alumni and Boston Crusaders alumni absolutely blew everyone away this year. They did it right. They moved just enough to keep it interesting, they played in tune, in time, and with proper style. And they were everything the 1970s was without marching timpani. Elex come down to the same scrutiny with the rest of the show. Design. Well designed and performed shows come off well, others do not. I dont need to tell you whats well designed and what isn't. You read the reviews and you get it. You are smart enough to make your own choices about what excites you in the stands. Well designed effects work when they are thought of as a part of the ensemble and not a special addition. Too often they are poorly designed into the show because they don't know how to use them, or didn't hire someone who knows how to write them in. My largest concern with this, is the same concern i have for DCI. If you're going to make these a component of the ensemble, then it MUST be a member of the ensemble operating it. Not an "intern", hired gun, staff member, or bum off the street. That person who's responsible for the balance/blend of the ensemble, and component of the score needs to be counted as a part of the ensemble, must be a paying member of the corps, and must be held to the same standards as the rest of the performers. Currently in DCI, it is not.

I didn't slap the alumni corps. I just wish the received a heck of a lot more support than they get, particularly from the sub-set of fans that wave the 'tradition" flag so vehemently.

I think "how hard" is not the right perspective to address your inquiry into marching in drum corps. You have one year to prepare for 2016 auditions. 1. Determine how much this means to you. Photo shop your face into the uniform you want to wear, put it on your mirror, in your horn case, visor of your car, and anywhere else you'll see it and be spurred on to action. 2. Determine how much time you are willing to commit to preparation. In all likelihood, nothing less than obsession will be needed. What does that look like to you. 3. Determine your plan. Talk to whomever you can. March in a competitively lower corps to gain experience. Or, attend any audtions available to you for the experience and evaluations. Attend any clinics. Any corps brass players near you from whom you can take lessons, or maybe just a chat to share some insight? Determination and action. You'll want to leave an audition knowing there was nothing else you could have done to be prepared. No regrets. Those are the only things that you can control.

Can the people who like it the way it is "now" (2014) speak? Or is that only allowable for the people who like it the way it will be in 2015? I can understand not wanting to hear repeated criticism from those who no longer support the activity anyway. But expecting every change to be greeted with unanimous acceptance is not realistic.

Then why post a response if it's not worth worrying about? And why the slap at the Alumni type corps? Some of them are supporting DCA/DCI.

I think DCA is going to evolve with the kids and what they have grown up with. If it doesn't evolve with what they know and love the activity will suffer. Its our hope as educators that they move the activity forward for many generations instead of leaving it behind. Education is going through some major changes. It happens frequently and at varying degrees. Not all change is bad. Sometimes the quickness in which it has been implemented is what upsets people. No one likes change and they certainly don't like it too fast. I was told by a great jazz musician last year that made some sense to me. He said "you love jazz and all of the old standards. Don't try to force Count Basie charts down their throats. It is too far removed from what they know and love. Go to their music, listen and try to introduce the concepts of Basie through what they listen to." In education, we are at that point. If I am going to happy with my career I have to find ways to adapt and meet them where they are. I can no longer expect them to come to me. I think that DCA has to change so that they meet the needs of the students. Create exciting programs that all can enjoy, young and old. I think if this happens you will have an activity that lasts for many years

It is scary to add electronics to DCA, brings up all sorts of issues, including the additional expense to field a corps. But I think the entertainment value of drum corps needs to evolve with the times, or big-time competitive drum corps could eventually end.

No one cares if you watch or not. But you'll likely still post whining about it, likely in the same posts you tell is what next week's scores are.

I partially liked Tom Peashey "personal opinion" in the above referenced thread. Personal Opinion despite serious financial and logistical questions, I've never been against a little electricity in the pit for equipment that was designed for it and traditionally uses it... that being said... if you open the door... to let the VW bug through - SOMEONE will drive a bus through even if they scrape the sides of the bus going through... Adding bass guitars that are adjusted and amplified to sound like Contras or synthesizers that are flat out amazing and can replace dozens of bodies - adding anything the artificially replaces performers is simply WRONG... period... end of discussion... Tom Peashey

The assimilation is almost complete.

The Kilties, Wisconsin’s only all-age (16-to-adult) competitive drum and bugle corps, had a very successful open house weekend and are now looking forward to their first full rehearsal kamp weekend, January 10th and 11th, in Racine, WI. It’s not too late to join the ranks of the 2015 Kilties. There was much excitement after the […] ... Read the rest of the article here - http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2014/12/kilties-first-full-2015-kamp-just-around-the-corner/

Didn't say that corps would go broke. As for scores,if a corps is faced with putting on entertaining show,one that will get them booked,they will strive to make that show the best they can. Think of Broadway there is no scoring by just six people and yet there are great shows. Really you would not go to see MBI,CABS and others just because they aren't getting a score? People will pay to see MBI,and the likes if the shows are entertaining. if the corps' get lazy and push less for excellence, people will not pay regardless of scoring or not. Think of it as a rock concert with a bunch of great groups,there's no scoring but you are there to see a great show. You don't need a score to tell you ,you re good the people in the seats jumping up and are telling you, you are good

Oh, that absolutely will happen, not because the rules have changed, but because the corps you cite suck at design. They'll just be able to suck at design using a few more tools. PEBUAK: Blame the user, not the tool.

John, slow down. The corps you list WILL handle the additions best. That's the point. Unfortunately, DCA has, maybe, 25 other groups that perform at its events. I'm thinking several of them will get carried away, do things poorly, etc. just because of some need to chase the 'big guys.' It will be similar to small, lower talented corps we ALREADY see presenting shows that are way beyond their reach. Say, corps with 40 members who write drills that use the entire 100 yards. Playing too difficult parts. In other words, the 'margin of error' is greater in DCA than in DCI. Maybe I should have said smaller, rather than greater!

I saw well over 200 bands this fall. More had some type of electronics, or at least a plugged in pit than didn't. And IMO, some of them should not have plugged in

...and that's a very fair point. The problem is, there's little discussion, particularly by the "that ain't drum corps!" crowd. The pro-evolution folks (of which I am admittedly one) provide support for their argument, while those opposed generally resort to slippery slope or ad hominem flights of logical fallacy. The only way to fight someone yelling about taking their ball and going home is to simply let them do so. I've yet to see one single poster that's against change in drum corps present a logical argument supporting their view. I'd love to see one, to be honest.

What I dont get is how anyone didnt think it was eventually going to happen. This is how it has almost always worked DCI implements something and DCA follows 5 to 10 years later. One would think by now that most would have got their frustrations out and and would have moved on long before this..Oh well....lol

Fair enough. My concern is the use of "evolved" or "evolution" as an excuse to say that any given change can't be discussed, which I've seen far too often in these discussion: your dislike for this change matters less than my like for this change because it represents the natural evolution of drum corps.

I concur with these gents about putting your money where your mouth is. I went to the alumni spectacular, and they place was empty. Which is sad.

Well, I for one thought MBI's pit was too loud this year.

correct. and with DCI, in several viewing online...oy if it wasn't the pits fault, it was the guy running the sound for DCI then. but the DCA corps I saw do it live did it well, and the sound guys for the fan network did too. funny how DCI still has issues.....

Look at the all brass instrument rule in DCI. Good idea to have it happen. Now more colors are able to be heard, which makes music that much more engaging. Everyone will hoot and holler negatively for a few months and then accept and forget about their gripes... or leave the activity entirely. That's the way the world spins.

Edit.

Duplicate post. We really need a delete post option.

In regards to Boston...All corps have been nice, but some are more nice than others. Blue Knights might like 59 more seconds to match their 1 they already have. Crossmen might like a place to stay after 2014, instead of having to travel around in caravans. The Cadets might like a lime green or hot pink cummerbund to go with their already schnazzzy ones from 2014. But seriously, for all, the best season ever in 2015!!! With the possibility of some drama about the winner on Finals night.

I know several corps who would love to be "irrelevant" in 4th place! (Crossmen, Blue Knights, Pioneer, Jersey, Surf, Madarins, Blue Stars, Boston, etc, etc, etc,)

Evolution is a bogus word in these discussions because it elides responsibility for change. This change didn't just happen on its own. Some people decided to make this change. Using the word "evolution" implies that there can be no good or bad decisions. In which case, not making this decision sooner was just "evolution" too (the coelacanth and other "lving fossils" are just as subject to evolution as any other organism), and your claim earlier in the discussion that the new changes are "outstanding" is meaningless. And if there are no good or bad decisions by DCA, then there can be no good or bad decisions by the corps, in which case any corps who makes the audience cringe next year with a "Yowza"-style performance can simply reply to criticism by saying, "Don't blame us, it's just evolution".

Just a note to clear things up re: Green Thunder Percussion and Cavaliers Indoor Percussion. In 2014 (last winter), Green Thunder Percussion (GTP) had its most successful season yet, which included winning two WGI Percussion regionals in Independent Open Class (Indianapolis and Dayton). After the Dayton regional, GTP was promoted to Independent World Class to finish out the 2014 competitive season...a HUGE testament to the entire GTP team of designers, educators, and performers, but I believe even more so a testament to the growth of this incredible program offered by The Cavaliers since 2008. Green Thunder, competing for the very first time in Independent World Class after the mid-season promotion, finished the 2014 season as a WGI World Championship Independent World Class semifinalist, and we couldn't have been prouder! Coming off of a wonderful season like 2014, the decision was made to continue the growth trajectory of this ensemble and even more closely align our World Class indoor percussion program with The Cavaliers. Cavaliers Indoor Percussion (CIP) picks up and runs with the foundation set by Green Thunder Percussion. Now, this also gives us the opportunity to further invest in the future of GTP as a separate ensemble focused on training and performance for percussionist in the Chicagoland area. With the development of CIP, we felt that taking the time to ensure success and stability with Green Thunder was critical. Thus, our plans are to relaunch GTP in 2016. Hope this helps. And I have to say that there was a LOT of excitement in every room this past weekend at our 2015 Audition Experience event in Chicago. Now, we are focusing on another invigorating weekend in Austin to complete the first round of our 67th anniversary season recruiting!

Enterprising Young Men broke my heart - it was probably the most anticipated piece I had going in to '13. That out of the way, I loved their music last year. So I'm ready to give them the benefit of the doubt - I assume it will be great until shown otherwise. Mike

Thanks for posting the Horner pieces which both are ripe for some great field presentations. For some reason I sensed SCV when I heard the Krull piece.

Evolve or die. Do I like the way things are going,not really. But that is what everything is about. Let them put elephants, and flaming clowns jumping thru hoops,on the field. If ya'll care about the entertainment aspect and keeping corps alive ,then take the competition out of the activity. Then for a corps to get booked for a show they will have to be good enough entertainers to put people in the seats. Play to their own stengths, with or without the the flaming elephants. A corps will not be chasing scores in a system that says you will now have TO HAVE WHAT THE BIG BOYS HAVE This sounded more betterer in my head,hope some one else gets my drift

KRULL enough said both Movie and Music are Brilliant. Has the Music from Krull ever been done on the field before?

If this was a new argument, it would be fine. But it's not. It's the same old, rung out "you dun gone and ruined mah drum core!" whining and moaning we've seen over and over since 2004. In Camel Lips' case, he's already said he's not watching the top corps (I have my doubts if he actually watches anyone at all, at least not live). The activity evolves. This happens every decade or two, and has for ages. The only difference is the addition of the internet to vocalize complaints. The beauty of evolution is that it marches on whether you believe in it or agree with it. As for what the board was thinking, I believe they absolutely had the future of the activity in mind. The Camel Lips of the world already don't support the corps, and likely never will, so why waste time worrying about them? Worry about the future...the future fans, members, and supporters of the activity. That's exactly what they are doing. Besides, it's not like these lovers of all things traditional are spending any money on alumni corps, are they?

and for the future of DCA, I have no issues with it. The future of DCA is the kids, who see and use this stuff in their band world, and in DCI. The future of DCA is not the 60 year old in the stands rumbing about rules changes. While I'm not opposed to the change, my hope is DCA judging will let bad design and performance aka balance be noted with an appropriate score, unlike other places. But bringing into the game stuff used everywhere else BUT DCA, is smart. For those of you who want old time drum corps, go to the alumni show. it could use your help as it's not drawing large crowds now

Gotta hope for C2 sake that Hopkins can give him the artistic freedom and control that he needs to do his job. If Hopkins has a weak point it's trying to dictate and micro manage everything. I wish them all the best as they climb that long ladder.

Oh I'm dealing with it just fine. I did not watch one single DCI video once DCI went band wacky with trombones and concert instruments. This year I did not watch one single DCA corps that was electronically enhanced in the pit. NOT ONE! Big boy pants on and secure thank you very much.

I've been away.... WAY too long but, such is life. I have a ton on my plate lately and the load just keeps growing... so, when I get a moment or two... I'll post. Yes, I know I went back too far but, I simply got sick of looking for where I left off. I'm working my way back. Sorry folks. It is what it is. And Mom is my main concern right now. Hugs to All!

In DCI, electronics led to four-plus years of heavy bass goo, which corps only began to rein in during 2013 and 2014. Amplified voice gave us such abominations as Crown's "Looooove" poem in 2004 and BD's "Yowza" narrator in 2005. But better that than sampling, where a focal point of the performance isn't even delivered live or by a corps member. In the case of Cadets this summer, the sheer fact that prerecorded sounds are permitted left half the audience incorrectly assuming the speaker was just lip-syncing. So... please learn from DCI's mistakes, DCA.

According to DCA's Facebook page: "Proposal to eliminate the pit line boundary penalty was defeated."

Couldn't agree less about the '70s. Transportation was rough at all but the top couple of corps. DCI mandated that we continue to play on poorly made instruments, e.g. valve rotor DEG and Dynasty (same thing) horns. They allowed pit equipment but you had to carry it around - ludicrous. Kids were often badly fed on tour, again by all but the top corps. Transportation equipment broke down as much as it rolled. The shows were fine, but think about what did it mean when Bayonne came out with that "entertainment" show in 1976 and jumped all the way to 6th. Those kids had all the heart in the world, but they were still in the launch phase of that new genre. Kind of makes one wonder what the entertainment factor was like before that, huh? It does me. You are more than entitled to your memories, and your evaluation of the decade. My younger brother (Brassmen 1972/1973) thinks DCI ended in 1974 (when he stopped) and nothing has been good since. The kids today are better educated, better equipped, better conditioned, and generally better taken care of than the 70s. It's not a coincidence that half the corps existing in 1970 were gone by 1980. You can blame DCI or anyone (or thing) you wish, but it's a fact and it pertains to the 70s. Disclaimer - I never marched DCI - I was in Viet Nam the year that DCI was formed and that's also the year I aged out. But I did tour with the Bridgemen in the late 70s as half of their brass staff (another advantage these kids have - every section has a tech). I will say this: the folks that judged in the 70s were Giants, e.g. Bernie Bags Sr.; Jim Prime Sr.; Sandra Opie; Roger Olsen; man I'm just hitting the tip of the iceberg. The after show meetings were a master class for anyone that listened (not everyone did). But no, I'll continue to disagree with your premise, and by a large margin. It had to start somewhere, and I'm glad it did, but best ever? Not even close, and yes of course, in my opinion.