84BDsop Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Bullsh*t. One more time..... Bullsh*t. Actually....no. John has it correct. A performing corps FIRS RESPONSIBILITY is for the production of the product on the field. It is the CORPS duty to secure the right to arrange and perform (live) whatever musical selections they choose. But the CORPS individually are not producing the DVDs of various shows....DCI as an entity is doing so, and it is the responsibility of DCI to secure the synch right to put audio and video on those DVDs. If a corps produces a vid of their own, YTHAT specific corps must secure the synch rights for THEIR OWN SELF-PRODUCED DVD ONLY -- thinking of BD 07's "Inside" one that used "Shut up and Drive" at one point...it was BD's job to get the rights for that song...not DCI's. I am NOT sure if BD had to secure the synch rights for it's 07 show music on a DVD it produced, however. That might be a separate rights issue, or it might be covered by DCI's one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Mike, Do you know if DCI has any plans to provide updates on this situation via their website? They are certainly quick on the draw on adding sponsor ads, announcing ticket availability, etc., but unless you actually follow the discussions here or go to Fan Network and see what is/isn't available on a seemingly daily basis, the general fan base has NO IDEA of WTH is going on. The ads for the DVDs and Blu Rays make NO MENTION of the fact that the actual content you receive may be significantly different from what was presented on the field. Not quite on the up and up, IMO... I suspect the e-mail that went out today was the answer to those questions, and it was likely delayed to give DCI every opportunity possible to present as complete a product as possible, in the hopes that more issues could be resolved. I'm almost gun shy to comment on these sort of things anymore, as according to my PPS on post #5, which I've extracted below. Seeing that a number of people apparently disagree with my transparency in being willing to openly discuss the truth about people working to at least attempt to resolve these issues as best they can, and that everyone with DCI wants to find a solution...Would people just prefer that I not attempt to bridge the gap between those that honestly want to know what's going on and those who know the answers? Because I'm cool with whatever folks want. I just don't quite comprehend the "shoot the messenger" sense I'm picking up from this, as I've always felt an obligation to let people on DCP know what's going on if I have the information. I thought people appreciated that sort of candor, but I apologize if I'm mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Not sure you understand how audio recording/mastering works. You can't just delete the voiceovers for the final product due to the way DCI records their performances. Therefore the ONLY solution is to pull video and just put in audio (such as Surf's show apparently) or edit portions out of the show completely (like Crown and Cavaliers last year, Phantom in 2008, etc). This is a huge problem that is escalating quickly, it seems... Yes, I understand. Sorry to have been unclear. My points were (1) I considered the sampling detrimental to the quality of the shows in the first place, so I won't miss it for its own sake; but also (2) that I know removing the sounds of sampling means removing all sounds during periods when the sampling occurs. We appear to be in complete agreement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak27 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I suspect the e-mail that went out today was the answer to those questions, and it was likely delayed to give DCI every opportunity possible to present as complete a product as possible, in the hopes that more issues could be resolved. I'm almost gun shy to comment on these sort of things anymore, as according to my PPS on post #5, which I've extracted below. Seeing that a number of people apparently disagree with my transparency in being willing to openly discuss the truth about people working to at least attempt to resolve these issues as best they can, and that everyone with DCI wants to find a solution...Would people just prefer that I not attempt to bridge the gap between those that honestly want to know what's going on and those who know the answers? Because I'm cool with whatever folks want. I just don't quite comprehend the "shoot the messenger" sense I'm picking up from this, as I've always felt an obligation to let people on DCP know what's going on if I have the information. I thought people appreciated that sort of candor, but I apologize if I'm mistaken. My post (hopefully) came across as a person asking a question regarding the truth and not a "shoot the messenger" accusation/finger point (and for the record, I helped to offset your "red" ranking)... You, unfortunately, find yourself as the visual target/whipping boy since you actually try to provide information to the best of your ability (in contrast to DCI's until recent silence on the topic). I commend you for that and personally hope you continue to do so; we're all better for your efforts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 My post (hopefully) came across as a person asking a question regarding the truth and not a "shoot the messenger" accusation/finger point (and for the record, I helped to offset your "red" ranking)... You, unfortunately, find yourself as the visual target/whipping boy since you actually try to provide information to the best of your ability (in contrast to DCI's until recent silence on the topic). I commend you for that and personally hope you continue to do so; we're all better for your efforts. Thank you; but if my efforts ever have the opposite effect, I hope people will tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) ashevillemurphy, on 02 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said: • The Cadets: 6 seconds of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed. • The Cadets: 31 seconds of audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been muted. The video of this segment is provided in its entirety. • Spirit of Atlanta: 19 seconds of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed. • Gold: 15 seconds of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed. • Music City: 4 short instances of video and audio of unlicensed, pre-recorded material has been removed. Anyone else note a pattern here? Corps designers: please stop using pre-recorded material, especially if you don't have the rights. Failing to get sync rights to music you've been planning on using and practicing for nearly a year is understandable. Having parts of your performance blacked out or edited on the DVDs and CDs thanks to *pre-recorded* clips is just excruciating for your fans. ------------------------------------------- post above from moved topic... I couldn't agree more! Not only is it annoying to the fan-buying public, but even worse for the performers who put months of hard work into to a great product they put on the field. One of their rewards is to have a beautiful recording of their show. Please don't put them in position (or us fans for that matter) of having to watch their product blanked out. There's just too much great music out there available. Pick something that's not going to create a license issue. It's not hard to do! One more thing: how many years in a row are we going to have these issues? For gosh-doggone sakes, enough already!!! Edited November 2, 2012 by drumcorpsfever 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) It seems clear DCI is more interested in the live performance than the merchandise/archives so only time will tell if sales drop after the fact. I think it's telling that DCI seems to drag their feet publicly announcing the sync problems and/or if it will affect the DVD's/Blu-rays. They clearly don't want to negatively affect their sales, and I suspect that most people pre-order the videos before or directly after Finals week before clearance issues are known/made public (last year's Madison issues not withstanding). I don't go to live shows anymore, but I love the activity and have purchased the DVDs/BD every year for historical purposes. It would be too bad if DCI is actually MORE interesting in the live performance, as you say. I would think that they'd be interested in BOTH? Edited November 2, 2012 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 The problem with what you are saying is that the corps designers do not (heck, they cannot) consider the DVD or Fan Network when designing. If it all works out, great, but their primary focus is and MUST be the competitive field product. Period. Sync and streaming rights are not, and never have been, the responsibility of the corps. Heck, the majority of the time you can't even secure those rights until the product is finished (which is why these things crop up in the off season). That's the strongest argument of all for DCI - the sanctioning circuit - to step in and prohibit non-original sampling, protect the DCI - the corps body - product for future use, sale and revenue distribution. Let's face it, right now you can't see or purchase to view the champion's show online. Everyone hurts from that. Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) Remember, by **crap** you also mean portions of Surf's musical book, as well as Empire State of Mind from Scouts last year. Right, Crap, anything that can not be included in their product for the sake of posterity. Crap... From ANY corps, be it my corps or anyone else's corps. It doesn't matter if I like the show or not. If it prevents a show from being on the DVD/CD/BD/FN, then I call it crap. Edited November 3, 2012 by jjeffeory 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcorpsfever Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 That's the strongest argument of all for DCI - the sanctioning circuit - to step in and prohibit non-original sampling, protect the DCI - the corps body - product for future use, sale and revenue distribution. Let's face it, right now you can't see or purchase to view the champion's show online. Everyone hurts from that. Mike Someone at DCI has to be accountable for this. Failure to get proper rights is a reflection on the performance of DCI. There's no reason for this issue to surface year, after year, after year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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