superOOk Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Best post of this thread... Long time BD fan here. But with that being said, Bluecoats fans be patient. Cause the question is not if the Bluecoats will win a title, its when. Bluecoats have arrived. And they are here to stay. And when it happens i will be cheering just as loud for them as i do when BD wins cause they deserve a title. To me the only thing that sucks about this year is that Bluecoats didn't make it out west this year. I would have loved to see them live. I had the honor of having Crown pretty much in my backyard last year when they housed at Vista Murrieta High School in Murrieta CA during their SoCal tour. I live two miles away from Vista Murrieta and got to see them rehearse every night and saw them live at the Walnut and Riverside shows. Boy don't i wish that could have been the Bluecoats this year. But if the Bluecoats want the title, they are gonna have to go and take it from my beloved BD. Cause BD is firing on all cylinders this year. I think the loss to Crown last year was like poking the hornets nest. BD is out for blood this year. But Bluecoats are game and the last three weeks of this season are gonna be amazing. Lastly, everyone saying Crown is finished, you guys are smoking something. Crown is like a wounded animal right now. Which makes them very dangerous. They might not win it this year, but they aren't going down without a fight. Believe that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I didn't miss the point really. Thing is that I heard people say that Garfield '86 was a disaster! 4th place was a disaster. They had just won 3 championships in a row and wanted to experiment with a small guard and a very large hornline. I remember that the hornline performed some guard duties during various parts of their show. See the thing is that Garfield Cadets does this. They did the same thing in '91 after winning in '90. They won and then took a big risk the next year. They seem to do that all the time. Sometimes their results are great, (83,84,85), sometimes it's not so great (06 after 05). As far as '86, it wasn't a 3 horse or more race like it was in 1990 or some other year. I simply get tired of people only caring about top 12, top 6, top 5, top 3, or it's a "two horse" race when the corps who have won seem to be taking huge risks after winning one year ( See Crown this year or Cadets after they win). The corps obviously don't put their focus only on winning DCI. You are totally on point with this. 1986 was a two horse race in my opinion (BD and SCV). Cavaliers were wonderful, coming off a 5th place finish in 85, but their show was not yet ready for top 2 or a title. Cadets, as you say, were experimenting with an 86 piece brass line, small guard, and they also had outside-of-drum corps obligations that summer (Statue of Liberty celebration). In the long run Garfield came on strong in the last few weeks, coming in 4th with a fun show. 1987 was also not a top 5 or 6 type of year. It was also a 2 horse race (Garfield and SCV). Two of the great shows of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannedforlife Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 What if the judge in the box is assessing different criteria than the one on the fiel? What if, instead of looking at every stroke and tap, he was looking for and listening to section timing, ensemble balance and blend, and ensemble cohesiveness? It just might be that some lines are strong both upstairs and downstairs, and some might not be. Yep you're definitely on to something with this statement. But don't hold your breath on the drum corps muggles understanding this. Those who don't get it will be just fine hanging out with the birds in the Alamodome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannedforlife Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 i thought of Francis McBeth when i heard BC tonight. the pyramid voicing. he was one of my teachers and i never forgot the first demo he did with a clinic band. the corps is really hungry and they're not from the city of Charles Ives for nothing. this show has stuff Zappa would envy, Ives would embrace, Mahler would dig, and Hollywood could use. no wonder so many people don't get the show. Interesting.....BC has a strong Bass horn line for sure, and I think of an interview with Gene Pokorny.....Chicago Symphony tuba, who spoke about the Pyramid of sound principles he learned in high school from Benton Minor...a legendary wind band educator in Southern California. To watch Minor clinic a high school band and hear how much better they sounded in an hour (intonation and blend of tone and balance) was magical. I will get crucified for this, but IMHO the pyramid of sound is a load of horse ####. There are so many various styles of music and so much interpretation that placing a blanket rule over balance is quite honestly ridiculous. On a lead chart in jazz band do you want to hear nothing but bari sax/bone and bass? Do rotating woodwind parts sound better with bass clarinets and bassoons honking away like a wounded walrus? There is so much more to great ensemble playing than the pyramid of sound and every terrible player and band director I've ever known swears by it. That being said, do I love it when I hear shrill trumpets over a muddy low brass? HELL NO, but there are more problems with tone quality, intonation, and chord spelling in the writing that leads to these problems rather than an overall awareness of a pyramid shape to a chord. A perfectly pyramid brass ensemble will sound god awful if the tone qualities are not resonant and blended. I know this will come as a surprise to some know it all's out there, but two brass instruments perfectly in tune can be out of tone and lead to fuzz in the clarity of the sound. A perfect pyramid chord can sound out of balance depending on the spelling of the chord and which instruments emphasize which note in the chord and in which respective register. Crucify me all you want, but I have spent the majority of my education and professional career sucking and listening to things that suck and one of my biggest pet peeves is the length to which terrible musicians will leap to defend the pyramid of sound. There, I said it, have at it critic buzzards hovering over the carcass of DCP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I will get crucified for this, but IMHO the pyramid of sound is a load of horse ####. There are so many various styles of music and so much interpretation that placing a blanket rule over balance is quite honestly ridiculous. On a lead chart in jazz band do you want to hear nothing but bari sax/bone and bass? Do rotating woodwind parts sound better with bass clarinets and bassoons honking away like a wounded walrus? There is so much more to great ensemble playing than the pyramid of sound and every terrible player and band director I've ever known swears by it. That being said, do I love it when I hear shrill trumpets over a muddy low brass? HELL NO, but there are more problems with tone quality, intonation, and chord spelling in the writing that leads to these problems rather than an overall awareness of a pyramid shape to a chord. A perfectly pyramid brass ensemble will sound god awful if the tone qualities are not resonant and blended. I know this will come as a surprise to some know it all's out there, but two brass instruments perfectly in tune can be out of tone and lead to fuzz in the clarity of the sound. A perfect pyramid chord can sound out of balance depending on the spelling of the chord and which instruments emphasize which note in the chord and in which respective register. Crucify me all you want, but I have spent the majority of my education and professional career sucking and listening to things that suck and one of my biggest pet peeves is the length to which terrible musicians will leap to defend the pyramid of sound. There, I said it, have at it critic buzzards hovering over the carcass of DCP. My feelings used to be similar to yours until I heard hornlines like Cavies and sometimes BD. Give me a pyramid of sound over those lines, ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I will get crucified for this, but IMHO the pyramid of sound is a load of horse ####. There are so many various styles of music and so much interpretation that placing a blanket rule over balance is quite honestly ridiculous. On a lead chart in jazz band do you want to hear nothing but bari sax/bone and bass? Do rotating woodwind parts sound better with bass clarinets and bassoons honking away like a wounded walrus? There is so much more to great ensemble playing than the pyramid of sound and every terrible player and band director I've ever known swears by it. That being said, do I love it when I hear shrill trumpets over a muddy low brass? HELL NO, but there are more problems with tone quality, intonation, and chord spelling in the writing that leads to these problems rather than an overall awareness of a pyramid shape to a chord. A perfectly pyramid brass ensemble will sound god awful if the tone qualities are not resonant and blended. I know this will come as a surprise to some know it all's out there, but two brass instruments perfectly in tune can be out of tone and lead to fuzz in the clarity of the sound. A perfect pyramid chord can sound out of balance depending on the spelling of the chord and which instruments emphasize which note in the chord and in which respective register. Crucify me all you want, but I have spent the majority of my education and professional career sucking and listening to things that suck and one of my biggest pet peeves is the length to which terrible musicians will leap to defend the pyramid of sound. There, I said it, have at it critic buzzards hovering over the carcass of DCP. You spent about two sentences making a point, and about 854 jumping to your own preemptive defense vs. an imagined blowback, complete with ahead-of-the-game "gotcha" with the "carcass of DCP" line, as though to say "I already win because anything you say doesn't matter because this forum is double plus super ungood so there!" No one is going to scream at you, dude. If you want to make a point, just make it without all the immediate on-the-defensive back-hand talk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 My feelings used to be similar to yours until I heard hornlines like Cavies and sometimes BD. Give me a pyramid of sound over those lines, ugh. That would be very closed minded and VERY uneducated on the different sounds that are out there that are also wonderful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) My feelings used to be similar to yours until I heard hornlines like Cavies and sometimes BD. Give me a pyramid of sound over those lines, ugh. The pyramid of sound as defined by McBeth was just a teaching tool for helping young bands understand the thought process behind ensemble balance, not a model for how to balance your ensemble. There is no right or wrong way to do it, only different ways based on the sound you desire. Edited July 21, 2014 by Kamarag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THeShadeOfNight Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Every single group of corps this year is incredibly exciting. Scores are all over the place with incredibly high numbers, corps that recently fell out of finals going back in with a bang. What an exciting year. VERY glad I ordered this Finals DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannedforlife Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 quote name="geluf" post="3382296" timestamp="1405902087"] You spent about two sentences making a point, and about 854 jumping to your own preemptive defense vs. an imagined blowback, complete with ahead-of-the-game "gotcha" with the "carcass of DCP" line, as though to say "I already win because anything you say doesn't matter because this forum is double plus super ungood so there!" No one is going to scream at you, dude. If you want to make a point, just make it without all the immediate on-the-defensive back-hand talk. Clearly I must be new to the internet and especially this forum. I like the poster that mentioned the pyramid is a learning tool and general guideline rather than a set in stone concept like 2+2=4. I stand by the points I made, but I also know how ignorant people can be including myself so I did my best to outline my point in a way that could defend them against someone who doesn't know any better i.e my younger self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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