OFFICIAL DCI FINALS THREAD

[contracurt]

It's NOT just "black pants." They wore black pants, yes, but then they wore black plumes, cummerbunds, hats, jackets, and to add to the NON-color and NON-contrast, the guard wore black pants! It completely MUDDIED the visual sets and the choreography was invisible, because there is no contrast.

Cadets wore black on black on black on black on black. Visually, it did not work. There is no reward in a build-up judging system for a visual program that is not visual.

NOBODY has made the claim Cadets lost because of black pants, that is a straw man argument. The point being made is that the all-black uniforms were NOT effective in adding GE points in THIS show. It was a HUGE mistake to try to force the uniforms into this year's show, they were never intended to be used for this show, according to Mr. Hopkins. They were ordered for Cadets 2.

And then the staff came out with this RIDICULOUS explanation that neon was the "tenth element" so black was needed for the tenth element. I bet they had a good laugh over that one, thinking how STUPID and GULLIBLE fans are to buy that spin regarding the change to all-black. All the staff did was insult their intelligent fan base with such arrogance. We have common sense, and we are smarter than that.

Here is the ultimate question; If the all-black uniforms are so visually effective, does anybody think Cadets will use them next year as well?

Put your money where your mouth is, would you bet $10 The Cadets will use these "superior" all-black uniforms next year? I'll bet you they won't.

I don't think I'll get ANY takers on that bet.

Cadets were losing in visual before the uniform change to both BD and Crown. Would it had been any different if they stayed with the previous uniform? Statistically I am thinking not, but I guess we will never know.

[Kamarag]

Easy, in the color of the arranging, the amplified sounds,the percussion writing, the distinct horn sound. When is the last time you heard BD sound delicate?

About 10:15 last night.

[Kamarag]

Even when tenor players fall off of props

You and I know it's all about the recovery, and boy did he recover *quickly*.

[84BDsop]

Easy, in the color of the arranging, the amplified sounds,the percussion writing, the distinct horn sound. When is the last time you heard BD sound delicate?

The ballad this year?

[JoeDz]

It should be noted that the only disappointments of the entire 3-day competition were electronic !

2 corps got penalized for unauthorized use of Dr. Beat in warm up (don't think that's an electronic problem as much as a choice problem)

X-men late penalty because electronics snaffu took them close to 13th place.... (teaching point: don't rely on electronices for cues and commands)

Singer's mics playing Rice Krispies

unmiced horn feature Crown

SCV electric piano at start

Bloo extra on-field speaker was there but silent (drawing negative attention) the day of finals...

(all of these indoors and in dry conditions)

and then..........Scores of first 6 corps prematurely released through electronic reporting process.

Maybe it's time for the corps to decide to stick to the natural sounds produced by brass and percussion ????? If not, DCI should be actively pursuing a sponsorship relationship with Ace Hardware, Best Buy, Christmas Tree Village, and Manny's Theremins-R-Us.

And a suggestion for props: the best props are the one's you don't notice (blend in and do a job) top 4 had very effective use of their props..... Crown was said by some to have no props.... of course that was not true, but it seemed that way..... Cadets didn't use anything that wasn't a "10," Bloo's spheres looked like they were on the field when the stadium was designed..... and BD made highly effective use of what a lesser design team would have turned into a junk yard/ mine field. You could add SCV's coils and BK's very effective mirrors (most effective disappearance act I've ever seen.......

Now, what do we do until next June 15th ? Without Fan Network, how do we enjoy this past season and compare it to others in the archives????

[TESB]

I think the days of clean final runs are over. People are talking about BD having major interval issues, a drummer falling over a prop and lots of drops in the guard,

And that's suppose to be a champion?? Geeze

I think the days of clean final runs are over. People are talking about BD having major interval issues, a drummer falling over a prop and lots of drops in the guard,

And that's suppose to be a champion?? Geeze

Whoa whoa hang on...let's not kid ourselves, this is the dirtiest Crown has been since I can remember, maybe since pre horse show. But also shows are more difficult than before, more pieces to throw together, which is its own problem. I think DCI may have dodged a bullet having this show first on the dvd. Edited August 9, 2015 by TESB

[jwillis35]

Cadets were losing in visual before the uniform change to both BD and Crown. Would it had been any different if they stayed with the previous uniform? Statistically I am thinking not, but I guess we will never know.

To me the Cadets made 2 big mistakes this summer (easy to discuss such things in hindsight, which is a little unfair to the corps and its' designers, but...):

1. The theme, The Power of 10. They could have called it this, but the way they approached the overly obvious elements of the show was pointless and not very effective when you overlay that on top of Shostakovitch's music. Things like saying numbers that add up to 10, changing the yard line markers, going with neon green because it's the 10th element of the periodic table. Come on, I do not see green when I hear Shostakovitch. Let the music aid you in design, not the gimmicks. The drill was perfect for that music. I still think that was the best drill on the field, and I did like the 10-yard ballad. Very effective.
2. Changing the uniforms to all black because they wanted to bring out the neon green and help their guard. Whenever it was planned, and I commend them for taking risks and following through, but that drill needed their traditional colors. They simply should have put the guard in a different outfit from day one.

All that aside, the Cadets were pretty phenomenal and I dare say that may be the best 4th place show I've ever seen. As for where they go next, I'd say this:

• Music construction is your forte. All through the winter we were treated to just how good the Cadets put together show music. Keep that going.
• Let your visual program flow from the intent of the music, including a theme if you have one.
• Can't wait to see maroon, gold, and cream again. BUT, if you really want to be daring perhaps do a show in which the corps is in costumes. A different outfit for each person, until mid way through or so, then finish the show in your traditional Cadets west point look.
• Your show was the most demanding on the field, no doubt, but I think that may have cost you a little. Find a balance and perhaps do some staging. The way BD does this is brilliant. I think there are things the Cadets could do, in Cadets fashion, that would be unique and really cool.
• Consider exploring some Ron Nelson "Savannah River Holiday" which is really good American music, or perhaps his "Aspen Jubilee."
• I loved the mostly all-flag work done in the 2014 show. I'm not so wild about rifles and you used them too much this year. More flags!

Edited August 9, 2015 by jwillis35

[JoeDz]

Very trivial point:

I just relived the scores, and Brandt Crocker needs to go. I know he's the voice of DCI and is probably a very nice man, but come ON. His tone when announcing BD's championship was almost rude. He should have no bias. I'm sure the argument will be that I'm full of crap (I often am); frankly, I would have been happier with a Crown win. I have no Devil in this race (nor do they care this morning, right?). Even last year, with the highest score ever, he rattled it off as though it were an afterthought. Every single solitary person alive knew BD would win last year. We were ALL waiting on the edge of our seats for that Score. How about, "99-point- (pregnant pause)-(another pause) 65." He certainly rubbed it in when Phantom won in 2008. And for God's sake, he all but wailed and cried when he shrieked "THE CAVALIERRRRRRRRRS" in 1992. Bias. Oh, and Cavies 2002? "In first place...undefeated..." but not the 2000 Cadets or the (pick a year) Blue Devils? Again, bias. (These are all available to relive online.)

Again, it's a trivial point, and I can't figure out why I'm so bugged by this. I don't know the man nor have ill-wishes. But come ON.

I see your point and understand your complaint. I also see the other side of what Mr. Crocker is doing. I thought he used his best technique in announcing that BD score last year. He gave the pause before ".65" and let the kids and the crowd provide far more emotional response than he could ever have added. He also had to be professional, yet reveal the surprise in The Cadets 3rd to Bloo, letting the crowd run with it....(he did that with a slightly longer pause between score and corps). He has his favorite pronouncement techniques for CavalieRRRRRRRs, Madison Scouts, and PhaAAAAntom Regiment. After this year, you will see more of the top-35 getting unique send-offs..... (I, personally, would start with Mandarins)..... Mr. Crocker is best for that job because , like the Crown props, he is almost not there...... he doesn't make mistakes or ramble on....... each introduction gets the corps on the field with a fair start and clearly defines the finish. Plus..... I like his voice (except for the bad cold 2 or 3 years ago)

Edited August 9, 2015 by JoeDz

[Tobias]

<p>

To me the Cadets made 2 big mistakes this summer (easy to discuss such things in hindsight, which is a little unfair to the corps and its' designers, but...):

• The theme, The Power of 10. They could have called it this, but the way they approached the overly obvious elements of the show was pointless and not very effective when you overlay that on top of Shostakovitch's music. Things like saying numbers that add up to 10, changing the yard line markers, going with neon green because it's the 10th element of the periodic table. Come on, I do not see green when I hear Shostakovitch. Let the music aid you in design, not the gimmicks. The drill was perfect for that music. I still think that was the best drill on the field, and I did like the 10-yard ballad. Very effective.
• Changing the uniforms to all black because they wanted to bring out the neon green and help their guard. Whenever it was planned, and I commend them for taking risks and following through, but that drill needed their traditional colors. They simply should have put the guard in a different outfit from day one.

All that aside, the Cadets were pretty phenomenal and I dare say that may be the best 4th place show I've ever seen. As for where they go next, I'd say this:

• Music construction is your forte. All through the winter we were treated to just how good the Cadets put together show music. Keep that going.
• Let your visual program flow from the intent of the music, including a theme if you have one.
• Can't wait to see maroon, gold, and cream again. BUT, if you really want to be daring perhaps do a show in which the corps is in costumes. A different outfit for each person, until mid way through or so, then finish the show in your traditional Cadets west point look.
• Your show was the most demanding on the field, no doubt, but I think that may have cost you a little. Find a balance and perhaps do some staging. The way BD does this is brilliant. I think there are things the Cadets could do, in Cadets fashion, that would be unique and really cool.
• Consider exploring some Ron Nelson "Savannah River Holiday" which is really good American music, or perhaps his "Aspen Jubilee."
• I loved the mostly all-flag work done in the 2014 show. I'm not so wild about rifles and you used them too much this year. More flags!

I

Think the biggest gamble Cadets took this year was Jeff writing the guard into the drill. The plan was for a frenetic nonstop musical/visual "clinic". The problem is guards can't be constantly moving and properly display their work. There needs to be deliberate guard features. I think Crown did this the best of the top 5 and Cadets the least.

As far as musical construction, Cadets will always opt for technically challenging books. That's what they do. They knew the inherent risks with this show, they knew demand is no longer heavily rewarded but they wanted to be Cadets. I think we'll see little changes musically but a rethink on guard staging next year. Winning the Ott award, I'm confident they'll have hundreds of qualified brass players interested in marching next year and the design team will look at their successes and failures this season and adjust. This was the most competitive season in a long time so we knew someone amazing wouldn't medal. A shame..

Edited August 9, 2015 by Tobias

[MikeRapp]

To me the Cadets made 2 big mistakes this summer (easy to discuss such things in hindsight, which is a little unfair to the corps and its' designers, but...):

• The theme, The Power of 10. They could have called it this, but the way they approached the overly obvious elements of the show was pointless and not very effective when you overlay that on top of Shostakovitch's music. Things like saying numbers that add up to 10, changing the yard line markers, going with neon green because it's the 10th element of the periodic table. Come on, I do not see green when I hear Shostakovitch. Let the music aid you in design, not the gimmicks. The drill was perfect for that music. I still think that was the best drill on the field, and I did like the 10-yard ballad. Very effective.
• Changing the uniforms to all black because they wanted to bring out the neon green and help their guard. Whenever it was planned, and I commend them for taking risks and following through, but that drill needed their traditional colors. They simply should have put the guard in a different outfit from day one.

All that aside, the Cadets were pretty phenomenal and I dare say that may be the best 4th place show I've ever seen. As for where they go next, I'd say this:

• Music construction is your forte. All through the winter we were treated to just how good the Cadets put together show music. Keep that going.
• Let your visual program flow from the intent of the music, including a theme if you have one.
• Can't wait to see maroon, gold, and cream again. BUT, if you really want to be daring perhaps do a show in which the corps is in costumes. A different outfit for each person, until mid way through or so, then finish the show in your traditional Cadets west point look.
• Your show was the most demanding on the field, no doubt, but I think that may have cost you a little. Find a balance and perhaps do some staging. The way BD does this is brilliant. I think there are things the Cadets could do, in Cadets fashion, that would be unique and really cool.
• Consider exploring some Ron Nelson "Savannah River Holiday" which is really good American music, or perhaps his "Aspen Jubilee."
• I loved the mostly all-flag work done in the 2014 show. I'm not so wild about rifles and you used them too much this year. More flags!

Great post, couldn't agree more on all counts.

This year I sort of felt as if a The Cadets had an agenda, which was to prove that all these big productions were silly, and they could out-drum corps everyone else and we're going to prove it by selecting a theme that was almost a middle finger of a concept. Some of the greatest shows ever performed in this activity were performed by The Cadets, but the most memorable of those combined their absurdly efficient execution with an equally absurdly powerful concept.

You have to remember that these shows are not only viewed by people, but performed by kids. Give both something to grab onto other than execution.

As much as a have grown to love Bluecoats and Crown, I think Cadets have the best chance to dethrone Blue Devils because they have the depth of talent and experience to out execute BD with a great concept.

I don't say this to rain on George at a low moment. I give him enormous credit because he always chooses to include the fans in their process and truly loves the activity at every level. We just need him to get onto the same stage as BD, BC and CC in show design and slug it out, even in all black uniforms.