Hardest show ever - Cadets 2015?

[xandandl]

I was about to say well BD's Head Design Team is over 50. Let me say, two different corps with two very different styles. I realized my reaction to your post was based on my own growing age number which just hit 47! I would think getting some input from some young designers just brings more ideas to the table. Darn I am getting sensitive as I turn into an old geezer! I do remember that nobody cleaned late season like the Cadets (Garfield at the time) in the mid to late 80's and 90's.

Dear youngster at 47, sixteen years younger than I am:

The problem is that Hopkins thinks he is Chandler, Glyde and ScoJo,etc., is as hairy as Pete Emmons (who aged out before I did as did Wayne Downey.) Granted age is a state of mind, but so are myths and legends.

Edited August 14, 2015 by xandandl

[perc2100]

"Difficulty" seems almost irrelevant now-a-days, definitely "most difficult" is a bit pointless. It's all about "effective" and definitely "most effective" gets you at/near the top. The cleanest & most effective corps wins: not 'most difficult.' Difficulty seems like a word from an older era that was important at one time but not-so-much currently.

That being said, I personally love a well-performed difficult show, and this year's Cadets achieved a LOT

[jwillis35]

George, that's true except Cadets were on fire Saturday night and I don't believe the judges "judged" that performance but hot caught up in the momentum of the last 1-2 weeks.

I have heard this sentiment from many who were at finals. Even die hard fans of other corps have told me they were shocked Cadets took 4th. But that's how it goes sometimes. Scores aside, The Cadets were truly amazing this year. I just could have done without the abundance of "10" related trivia. Best 4th place corps I've ever seen.

[BDCorno]

I would say the hardest show is definetly Crown 2012.

Wow. SMH.

[BDCorno]

Not gonna work, based on the experience of most years since 2000.

The design staff SHOULD NOT STUDY WHAT THE BLUECOATS, CROWN AND BD ARE DOING - and yes I'm shouting - if they want to be the Cadets.

The Cadets design team should formally solicit ideas from the scores and scores of alumni, fans, and future MMs with the creativity to offer coherent design concepts and ideas. Arguably, no organization has that kind of engaged alumni and fans. Evidence: the Cadets thread here on DCP every single year is much larger than any other corps. Sure, some of that's from critics, but BD has at least as many critics as Cadets.

The Cadets need to Know Themselves. But that doesn't mean navel gazing and closed innovation.

Their design team is simply not as effective as other top 5 corps. Evidence: the MMs talent outperforming show concepts most years since 2000. GE being the major weakness. That means subpar design, nothing more, nothing less.

Until I hear a better idea from someone about how to improve the Cadets design team's show concept development process - better than Open Innovation - I'll continue to be pessimistic about next year, and the year after, and after that.

The Cadets should be the leaders in innovation, creativity, demand, and achievement. If they're not, there's a problem. No excuses. Ten years ago, Crown and Bluecoats weren't even sniffing top five. Now they're on a finals winning streak versus the Cadets. That's a problem.

Change is necessary. Change is good. Innovation on the field requires innovation in the design team's approach to design.

Yeah, let's ask alumni, fans and the kids what to do. I'm sure that will end well.

[BDCorno]

Exactly. I'm sorry, but:

Scatter sets

Slow moving drill

Not playing anything difficult while moving

Not moving fast even while not playing

AND

Not much unison guard work

DO NOT EQUATE TO DIFFICULT - you could say that for this year too.

Boy, I guess you never actually watched their show. I'd like to invite you to runthroughs the week of Indy and let you see it up close. You couldn't be more misled as to the content of their show.

[wallace]

LOL! I really hope all this ageism talk fires up the staff to bake a big humble pie for the naysayers. I've rarely heard anything as ridiculous.

[StuStu]

I still think that Garfield 1985 is the Standard for demand and exposure. "Jeremiah" is hard enough for an orchestra to play (Garfield played the *entire* second movement sans repeats!). Bernstein's "anger" was so evident; string voices enter at odd moments to recapitulate what was just heard. Transpose that to a football field with 4 horn voices (and TWO valves). The field coverage was sick. Then, when current shows end (at the 11½ minute mark), they started playing "Glitter and Be Gay" from the Overture to Candide --- it got faster and faster and faster, all the while the drill became more intricate (not Sacktig's really tiresome X's which he's used since 1998). The sopranos were forced to play above the staff while dipping and dodging at 192 bpm. In 2005, the corps made a 20th anniversary threepeat video. Both Michael Cesario and Marc Sylvester both said emphatically that their 1985 show was STILL the hardest thing out there.

I've long believed they could have dropped their horns at the end of Jeremiah and walked off the field. "There's nothing left to be done, thanks for watching."

I do agree with the post regarding expectation of difficulty from the Cadets faithful. One of the Cadets trademarks is taking on a difficult challenge and making it look easy. In my eyes, that makes a huge impact on GE. And back in the day, that was a major contributor to the Cadets' success.

It has taken some of us quite a while to understand that taking something hard and doing it well isn't enough in this era. After all, 50 of the 100 possible points evaluate the design, not the performance. So we now talk about themes and concepts above and beyond the music.

I know that content and repertoire have always been part of the game, but I think it takes too much out if the performers hands. It also has led to such diverse approaches that comparisons between corps are harder and harder to make.

[Lance]

haven't looked at a single post in this thread.

but i'd say this show has to be right up there on the list, even with the 4 minutes in the middle where there's little simultaneous demand.

[brichtimp]

I have heard this sentiment from many who were at finals. Even die hard fans of other corps have told me they were shocked Cadets took 4th. But that's how it goes sometimes. Scores aside, The Cadets were truly amazing this year. I just could have done without the abundance of "10" related trivia. Best 4th place corps I've ever seen.

Of course, there is so much emphasis on the Saturday night placement in labeling the Cadets 2015 (for example) a 4th place corps. But, within the context of the last month of the season, they were never a 4th place corps. Similar to 2014 where they were never anything less than a 2nd place corps until Saturday night that year. I will continue to enjoy the 2015 show for its musical quality and some of the drill design, while looking past the considerable visual dirt (intervals and phasing) that were evident all the way to the end. The musical execution of the brass and percussion was superb!