Hardest show ever - Cadets 2015?

[brichtimp]

Visually.

IMHO, all of the top 4 corps had visual dirt....none were pristine....the 'hidden' subjectivity is in what the judges notice and to what degree that impacts scoring. One could argue that the Cadets had more visual dirt that was noticeable, and also had more attempted visual drill exposure where synch precision was in play.

[marcher22]

This year had a fantastic musical program. It was truly exciting to see them do something very challenging this year in terms of speed and demand. People, judges, and especially members/alumni expect that Cadets pull off a tremendously challenging show. The shear attempt to do something hard is actually part of the effect. I don't think a lot of other corps ride on this very specific expectation.

One other expectation is that the Cadets should march very well. For Cadets' historical standards, they have been marching very poorly since 2010. Winning visual performance was never a goal and should never be but upholding a quality standard is critical. I haven't seen them come close 1993, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007-2009.

I don't know why it took such a drop.

[chris ncsu]

This year had a fantastic musical program. It was truly exciting to see them do something very challenging this year in terms of speed and demand. People, judges, and especially members/alumni expect that Cadets pull off a tremendously challenging show. The shear attempt to do something hard is actually part of the effect. I don't think a lot of other corps ride on this very specific expectation.

One other expectation is that the Cadets should march very well. For Cadets' historical standards, they have been marching very poorly since 2010. Winning visual performance was never a goal and should never be but upholding a quality standard is critical. I haven't seen them come close 1993, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007-2009.

I don't know why it took such a drop.

I agree that overall/on average their visual cleanliness since about 2005 isn't what it was in the early 2000s or 80s or 90s.

But I must nitpick -- they won visual proficiency in 2011 and did very well in 2014, and this year were doing quite well until the last week or so it seems, whereas you included some lesser years in your "good marching" bunch, like 2008 and to certain degrees 2007 and 2009.

[marcher22]

I agree that overall/on average their visual cleanliness since about 2005 isn't what it was in the early 2000s or 80s or 90s.

But I must nitpick -- they won visual proficiency in 2011 and did very well in 2014, and this year were doing quite well until the last week or so it seems, whereas you included some lesser years in your "good marching" bunch, like 2008 and to certain degrees 2007 and 2009.

I was very um "involved" in 2011 Cadets. That corps was diiiiirty. If there was any proof that the judging system sees what they want to see, that was it for me.

2014, eh nothing to write home about.

Could you imagine how BadAz they would have look if they didn't drag their feet in 2015? That would have been spectacular.

[Tobias]

An important addition to the design team is what Cadets need. They are stellar in musical construction, performance levels and talent are amazing BUT they are lacking in the overall design construction and visual department mostly due to a weak guard (relatively speaking). Fix the guard (overall visual would have been higher and GE would have been positively affected).

No big problems at Cadets. It was a fiercely competitive season and guard is a huge factor in scoring now. Fix that and maintain the brass and percussion. Add a strong creative mind to the mix, they would be almost unstoppable.

[Tad_MMA]

I still think that Garfield 1985 is the Standard for demand and exposure. "Jeremiah" is hard enough for an orchestra to play (Garfield played the *entire* second movement sans repeats!). Bernstein's "anger" was so evident; string voices enter at odd moments to recapitulate what was just heard. Transpose that to a football field with 4 horn voices (and TWO valves). The field coverage was sick. Then, when current shows end (at the 11½ minute mark), they started playing "Glitter and Be Gay" from the Overture to Candide --- it got faster and faster and faster, all the while the drill became more intricate (not Sacktig's really tiresome X's which he's used since 1998). The sopranos were forced to play above the staff while dipping and dodging at 192 bpm. In 2005, the corps made a 20th anniversary threepeat video. Both Michael Cesario and Marc Sylvester both said emphatically that their 1985 show was STILL the hardest thing out there.

I tend to agree with Maneuvah (haha. love the name!). They're stale. Was there any difference between the 2007 end-sprint and 2015? Nothing new to the table. But holy hornline!

[xandandl]

An important addition to the design team is what Cadets need. They are stellar in musical construction, performance levels and talent are amazing BUT they are lacking in the overall design construction and visual department

I have to agree totally.

Other than Colin MacNutt, there is no one on the design team younger than about 45-50. They all are grandparenting age, AARP members, Geritol geezers like me, dinosoars!

Visual program has tended to be a re-cycling of past forms and processes for about the last six years. Like them, the design is tired. Only the musical was unique.

Adding the director's daughter, another yes person, to the list is not helpful as there has been no new blood, new insights, or new energies into the design experience in quite awhile.

The visual department suffered this year due to the ongoing absence of many of the usual personnel who have skills and experience with the cleaning.

P-Dunk, Prof DeGroff, the Ben, and Joe Roche all were missing in action for most of the tour due to excellent professional commitments and priorities from their life outside of drum corps. Many of the other usual staff are now on Coats viz staff. The younger team at Cadets viz did well for most of the season but lacked the finesse of how to clean for championships week. The black unis only compounded the problem by obliterating wonderful things the Cadets had mastered. The ballad work was almost not visible from the stands. This, even more than guard considerations, is where Cadets lost championships and medals in GE and viz captions.

[George Dixon]

I was very um "involved" in 2011 Cadets. That corps was diiiiirty. If there was any proof that the judging system sees what they want to see, that was it for me.

Exactly.

[drumcorpsfever]

Hand's down, Cadets 2015 is the best darned 4th place corps ever! Somehow they were buried by the judges at the end of the season.

[jmc5682]

I have to agree totally.

Other than Colin MacNutt, there is no one on the design team younger than about 45-50. They all are grandparenting age, AARP members, Geritol geezers like me, dinosoars!

Visual program has tended to be a re-cycling of past forms and processes for about the last six years. Like them, the design is tired. Only the musical was unique.

Adding the director's daughter, another yes person, to the list is not helpful as there has been no new blood, new insights, or new energies into the design experience in quite awhile.

The visual department suffered this year due to the ongoing absence of many of the usual personnel who have skills and experience with the cleaning.

P-Dunk, Prof DeGroff, the Ben, and Joe Roche all were missing in action for most of the tour due to excellent professional commitments and priorities from their life outside of drum corps. Many of the other usual staff are now on Coats viz staff. The younger team at Cadets viz did well for most of the season but lacked the finesse of how to clean for championships week. The black unis only compounded the problem by obliterating wonderful things the Cadets had mastered. The ballad work was almost not visible from the stands. This, even more than guard considerations, is where Cadets lost championships and medals in GE and viz captions.

I was about to say well BD's Head Design Team is over 50. Let me say, two different corps with two very different styles. I realized my reaction to your post was based on my own growing age number which just hit 47! I would think getting some input from some young designers just brings more ideas to the table. Darn I am getting sensitive as I turn into an old geezer! I do remember that nobody cleaned late season like the Cadets (Garfield at the time) in the mid to late 80's and 90's.