The Cadets and GH history of sexual abuse (news article)

[N.E. Brigand]

On 4/14/2018 at 3:10 AM, Whiskey said:

I appreciate the journalist trying to go after the story. My heart is with the victims. Reading that article today referencing RAMD and Mr. Rice, all that credibility is slowly going out the window.  I understand chasing the lead, but slow down there.

I’ve seen and dealt with reporters like this wanting a story. I was a superintendent and dealt with journalists just like what I’m seeing here. Trying to find any lead and person who they can interview to get any additional dirt. It’s why I never take any news on TV or in paper as the absolute truth.

A couple years ago I dealt with a journalist student studying to be an investigative reporter.  They were dragging in anyone who wanted to put the school in a bad light. They wanted to come on campus and do interviews with staff, the whole nine yards. Our Governing Board didn’t play and I had my PR person squash that in an instant. We went to her boss/professor and even the president of the university.  We told them if they run this sensational piece we’d come with our own and how they are attacking our school that is quite unique and diverse.  We were already being as transparent as we could and were holding information nights for community.

In the end, the article was published but had nothing to do with the original reason they wanted to write about. It sounded more like disgruntled parents and some staff. It was quickly forgotten.  The reporter’s article didn’t have legs because of the sources she was using.  In the end the reporter could only salvage what they could because we were proactive about it and her sources lacked credibility.  That reporter has a webpage and all the investigative articles they have written over the years. Ours is not included on their page.

Honestly this issue with Yea! is starting to feel just like it.  Some us know or read the ramblings of Stu back in the days and we know just how interesting an individual he was.  This issue is important and I want the victims to get justice but let’s do it in the right way and for the right cause.  

One way to ensure that journalists do a better job is to reach out and let them know your concerns. Politely whenever possible. I've done so many times over the years and have often heard back with a decent response. By no means have all my concerns been fully assuaged, but if lots of people here, for example, feel that Ms. Nadolny's source has credibility issues and let her know that (she's probably scanned this forum from time to time over the past week, but even the regulars here are having a hard time keeping up with all the facts and opinions in this thread), that could help to make her more aware of such considerations moving forward.

Edited April 18, 2018 by N.E. Brigand
4/18 - Corrected misspelling of reporter's name.

[skevinp]

Just a dumb question here.  Were there specific DCI rules at the time against a director or staff member having a consensual relationship with an adult corps member?  

[kdaddy]

8 hours ago, Jim Schehr said:

Should permission be granted first or are the facts just not important to you?  EVERYONE knows. 

I really don't understand your argument or why you're arguing. And that's okay. 

Ultimately, Stuart Rice's info wasn't viewed as credible - this is my point. I'm not suggesting that it should or shouldn't have, but I'm not surprised that it wasn't. 

[JimF-LowBari]

8 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

I actually met Catherine Burr.  Marched by her. That is a special kind of crazy that I would NOT subscribe to Stuart Rice. 

Her posts at times reminded me of an extended family member that we thought had a chemical imbalance that unhinged her every now and then. Big problem was the more you tried to tell her she was wrong the more she was convinced she was right and you were hiding things from her. Add a little paranoia and anything you told her just made things worse

Edited April 14, 2018 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

8 hours ago, Eleran said:

What was his beef with YEA?  That Cadets beat Blue Devils in '83? 

Honestly that I remember he hated the changes and like most blamed Hop solely 

[kdaddy]

4 hours ago, skevinp said:

Just a dumb question here.  Were there specific DCI rules at the time against a director or staff member having a consensual relationship with an adult corps member?  

I'm curious about that as well. I mean, it's weird that a consensual relationship would occur. And it should be discouraged. And if it came out that the nine women accusing Hopkins of assault had instead been nine corps members having a consensual (legal) relationship with him, this story wouldn't have made the paper, and Hopkins and the board would still be a YEA. 

To me, assuming there's no rule disallowing such a relationship, Dan Acheson's response should have been to pull Hopkins aside and discourage such activity. 

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

Just for the record, and clarification for those who just reading the postings, this Stu (me) and that Stu are two different Stu's. Carry on.

You and I butt heads but I’d never compare you to him.

 

he once contacted the boosters where I taught claiming I was a serial harrasser

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, Whiskey said:

I appreciate the journalist trying to go after the story. My heart is with the victims. Reading that article today referencing RAMD and Mr. Rice, all that credibility is slowly going out the window.  I understand chasing the lead, but slow down there.  

 

I’ve seen and dealt with reporters like this wanting a story. I was a superintendent and dealt with journalists just like what I’m seeing here. Trying to find any lead and person who they can interview to get any additional dirt. It’s why I never take any news on TV or in paper as the absolute truth. 

 

A couple years ago I dealt with a journalist student studying to be an investigative reporter.  They were dragging in anyone who wanted to put the school in a bad light. They wanted to come on campus and do interviews with staff, the whole nine yards. Our Governing Board didn’t play and I had my PR person squash that in an instant. We went to her boss/professor and even the president of the university.  We told them if they run this sensational piece we’d come with our own and how they are attacking our school that is quite unique and diverse.  We were already being as transparent as we could and were holding information nights for community.

 

In the end, the article was published but had nothing to do with the original reason they wanted to write about. It sounded more like disgruntled parents and some staff. It was quickly forgotten.  The reporter’s article didn’t have legs because of the sources she was using.  In the end the reporter could only salvage what they could because we were proactive about it and her sources lacked credibility.  That reporter has a webpage and all the investigative articles they have written over the years. Ours is not included on their page   

 

Honestly this issue with Yea! is starting to feel just like it.  Some us know or read the ramblings of Stu back in the days and we know just how interesting an individual he was.  This issue is important and I want the victims to get justice but let’s do it in the right way and for the right cause.  

 

 

I was blind copied last night on an email to the reporter by someone far more eloquent than I to the reporter. It broke down Rice, gave a myriad of links that show his credibility issues and a behavior pattern. Let’s see if it see the light of day

[Tim K]

21 minutes ago, kdaddy said:

I'm curious about that as well. I mean, it's weird that a consensual relationship would occur. And it should be discouraged. And if it came out that the nine women accusing Hopkins of assault had instead been nine corps members having a consensual (legal) relationship with him, this story wouldn't have made the paper, and Hopkins and the board would still be a YEA. 

To me, assuming there's no rule disallowing such a relationship, Dan Acheson's response should have been to pull Hopkins aside and discourage such activity. 

Put it another context. Can college professors or teaching assistants have sexual relationships with students? While some colleges might not forbid grad students and professors, though that list is getting shorter each day, it is forbidden with undergrads, in most cases defined with specific policies. 

There may be lots of examples of things not being clear cut in situations such as this, and some cases are murky, but in the case of drum corps, the word education is used quite frequently, instructors often describe what they do as teaching, and marching members are often treated like students in the best sense. The educational aspect is most likely a huge part qualifying for non-profit status. I belong to a camera club and it qualifies as a non-profit because it is viewed as educational and each year educational activities have to be documented and submitted to the IRS. If you are in a position of power, which most adults involved in drum corps, including volunteers, would have, and you view your activity as educational and may be even classified as educational, you do not have a leg to stand on if an allegation is made between an adult and a marching member, and if you use being consensual as a defense, you are giving a prosecutor an early Christmas gift. Remember too, this is new territory for drum corps but not the wider world. 

[HockeyDad]

Can Presidents have consensual relationships with White House interns?

I thought we were beyond this but I guess not. The power imbalance is what causes problems. It's not as simple as - they're both 18 or older so, shrug. 

This whole thing is becoming a s... storm for the entire activity. I fear for the survival of DCI. Maybe one thing that IS needed going forward is to provide DCI with strong, unambiguous oversight authority. Someone needs to be the adult in the room.