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North Canton, OH - Saturday, June 22, 2019


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On 6/22/2019 at 9:15 PM, Cadevilina Crown said:

Music scores for Bloo are making me nervous. Seems that Boston has much more room to grow in that department while Bloo is close to maxing out.

IMHO, their music book ranges somewhere between elevator music and a college marching band halftime show. Standing around on boxes instead of marching isn’t helping. 

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5 hours ago, phd-student-TTU said:

IMHO, their music book ranges somewhere between elevator music and a college marching band halftime show. Standing around on boxes instead of marching isn’t helping. 

Eeehh.

They aren't playing anything remotely similar to the latest set of Hal Leonard charts featuring "The Music of The Beatles"

They are playing a Thrower/Rarick composition that uses Beatles themes (often in ways so covert and clever, that you don't notice it).

I think you are reducing their concept to absurdity on the grounds that it does't appeal to you personally.  Their music arrangement would not be suitable for a college football crowd.

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9 hours ago, Stu said:

A) I cannot say any read is poor or good. Those are subjective terms. And the only subjective evaluations which matter are the ones made by the official judges.

B) I am not saying early reads that are considered by anyone as being poor are indeed poor. They are merely first reads by official judges.

C) Majority rule? Nope. But adjudicators who are supposed to be trained the same, interpret the same, subjectively evaluate the same, from early on to finals, in the name of consistency? Yep.

D) it is item (c) that creates a corps' early on general ranking range which will be in place for the entire season; it is based on a consistent official judging view early on of what is determined to be good/bad design. And design is something that can be tweeked but not blown out and completely changed. Thus it only allows the corps to move around throughout the rest of the season within the early on assigned range.

E) Here is the proof: It is already detetmined, here in June, by the subjective evaluation of the official judges, that the Scouts will not win this year and SCV will not competitively fall out of the top six this year. And, as opposed to objective scoring sports, there is not a darn thing the players can do to change that outcome. Therefore, that early determination of design ranking range by subjective judges which will stay pretty much intact throughout the entire season is, by definition, a form of slotting.

I appreciate your assertions.  I don't see you providing any evidence... and we are beating a dead horse because of it.

More specifically to the assertion that you can't give examples due to the subjectivity, these are the rubrics:

http://www.dci.org/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209936977

They have 5 box scoring bracket categories that deal exclusively with quantifiable observations.  This is an objective construct.  These brackets alone separate the placements that we are discussing.

If your assertion about subjectivity is as complete as you say, then these rubrics couldn't exist.

Performing arts adjudication is not an exclusively aesthetic medium... because it involves performance.

So, one last time... Name a corps that was denied placement due to early scoring.

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Stu So, what would you use to score corps that would allow any corps to win any night?  That sounds impossible.

Edited by c mor
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11 hours ago, Stu said:

I am saying three things:

1) That once the DCI season begins, and designs are evaluated in the first few shows, corps are placed in range groupings (general range positions) in which they will stay the entire season. And a corps that is determined 'early on' to be in the top design group will not fall out into a lower group, nor will a corps that is determined 'early on' to be in the lower or middle design group have a shot at a medal that year.

2) This 'early on' determination is actually a form of slotting because it is determined by subjective evaluation and ranking by judges based on something beyond the control of the players: design by the staff which is rather unchangeable once the season begins. And there is nothing the players can do to get out of that 'early on' slotted range.

3) This is opposed to objective scored sports like MLB where if the players stink early on, but rally mid to late season to score more runs than their opponents, an 'early on last place team' can in fact still become world champions in that very same season.

This is precisely my point, thanks Stu.

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On 6/23/2019 at 6:55 AM, cfirwin3 said:

You are assigning improper cause to the effect.  It is possible to play better baseball one day to the next, but it is not possible to program the same show better (or worse, for that matter) one day to the next in an effectual way.  Your example isn't congruent concerning the source of point value.

That's not arbitrary adjudicated slotting as people conceive of it.

By your analogy, performing a surge like that in drumcorps requires some agressive maneuvering that isn't really possible (or worthwhile for the experience).

Corps would have to stop competing, redesign (and probably change entirely) their show.  They would have to break contracts and successfully recruit different talent, not only for membership, but also for the design team... so essentially they have to start over with a 4 week training session on a new show and a new drumcorps.  That's where the bulk of points come from.  Contention is mostly determined at the brainstorming table and the recruitment roster... NOT the judging table and the judging roster on opening night.

 

Change my mind.

In 1976 Madison did stop competing, redesign, & change the show mid-season.  They got 2nd place.

In 1980 Guardsmen did a massive redesign & made it into finals (12th out of 44 Corps in  "world" class),

In 1982, 27th Lancers re-wrote all but 132 counts of drill during the season; they finished 6th at DCI.

 

It CAN be done.  The Corps just has to want it bad enough.

Edited by IllianaLancerContra
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16 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

In 1976 Madison did stop competing, redesign, & change the show mid-season.  They got 2nd place.

In 1980 Guardsmen did a massive redesign & made it into finals (12th out of 44 Corps in  "world" class),

In 1982, 27th Lancers re-wrote all but 132 counts of drill during the season; they finished 6th at DCI.

 

It CAN be done.  The Corps just has to want it bad enough.

In 78, we put in an entirely new closer mid-season.  That closer was Greensleeves. 

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1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said:

In 78, we put in an entirely new closer mid-season.  That closer was Greensleeves. 

I wonder why Corps don't do massive re-writes any more?

The average talent level these days far exceeds the talent BITD (the talent of the strongest players in any given Corps has not changed.  But the weakest players today are far stronger than BITD) so I suspect the members can rise to the challenge..  Maybe staff egos don't allow for re-writes?

Edited by IllianaLancerContra
more better English
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