Mandarins - Here We Go Again

[Terri Schehr]

26 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

“Recent” allegations that happened in 2017.   I suppose that is recent in geologic time....

It’s that new math.  🤷‍♀️

[JimF-LowBari]

2 hours ago, Musicman1084 said:

I'm just going to leave this here. Start watching at the timestamp (5:40 if it doesn't work) up through the member's reaction after Ike is done talking. The member's reaction is kind of telling, and this is the drum captain.

 

 

So he’s sarcastic with the female of Oriental heritage who looks like she weights 90 pounds soaking wet with rocks in her pocket? And this is with a HIGH SCHOOL BAND????
 

Edit: didn’t compete when I was in HS band. Band director was crusty old WWII vet who wanted to build up self esteem of members who had rough home life or other issues. He figured if we competed the band parents would be griping about Bobby or Susie who couldn’t march or play that well and kill what confidence the kid had. “And for what? Another ### #### trophy going to tarnish in a display case somewhere? Rather see the kids make something better of themselves” After seeing this vid THANK YOU!

Edited July 25, 2020 by JimF-LowBari

[skevinp]

2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Edit: didn’t compete when I was in HS band. Band director was crusty old WWII vet who wanted to build up self esteem of members who had rough home life or other issues. He figured if we competed the band parents would be griping about Bobby or Susie who couldn’t march or play that well and kill what confidence the kid had. “And for what? Another ### #### trophy going to tarnish in a display case somewhere? Rather see the kids make something better of themselves” After seeing this vid THANK YOU!

Unhealthy obsession over competition is a basis for one form of the problem, in my opinion.  

[Brian Tuma]

4 hours ago, Musicman1084 said:

I'm just going to leave this here. Start watching at the timestamp (5:40 if it doesn't work) up through the member's reaction after Ike is done talking. The member's reaction is kind of telling, and this is the drum captain.

 

 

The drum captain is the adult in the room (as it were). Sad to see he’s fallen prey to the “that’s the way he is” mindset. I look at kids like that and think how much more they could achieve and how much confidence they could gain by having someone building them up instead of tearing them down. You can be a demanding teacher without being demeaning. 

[MikeD]

1 hour ago, Brian Tuma said:

The drum captain is the adult in the room (as it were). Sad to see he’s fallen prey to the “that’s the way he is” mindset. I look at kids like that and think how much more they could achieve and how much confidence they could gain by having someone building them up instead of tearing them down. You can be a demanding teacher without being demeaning. 

The guy would never have lasted in any band I have taught since my first in 1971. I don't blame the students at all; he is part of the staff hired by the band director. None of the directors I have worked with over time would have put up with him, and neither would I when I was a director.

Each season I would tell our kids something like this before competitions: "There are three things that determine our score and placement. 1) How well we perform; 2) how well the other bands perform and 3) what the judges think. We as a band only control number 1), so go out there and perform your best show for yourselves."

Edit: I will say I saw band staff members from other bands over the years that behaved like Jackson in the video. 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by MikeD

[Tim K]

I am not surprised that this type of behavior still happens in drum corps, though I would not have guessed Mandarins would have been the corps. That being said, I have loved drum corps for many years. In high school and college, I began to know people who actually marched. It did seem to me that when a corps made finals, or if a corps had an accomplishment of some kind, it was always a team effort. If a corps fell from finals or did not place where it believed it should have, it was always the fault of an individual or a group, and for some who were blamed, the situation was unbearable. 

The 2017 Mandarins show was potentially good enough to squeeze into finals, but the general  consensus was not enough time was spent earlier in the season to clean and tweak it. I’m sure we can look back at DCP posts that would back up that claim. Need a scapegoat? The drum major will do, but is the drum major the one who decides what will happen at practice?  

I can recall taking a class for my teaching  ertification on evaluation. When it came to subjective grading (letter grades for written assignments, essays,  creative writing, etc.), the professor told us to stay away from appearing to be tough, a difficult grader, or someone who was difficult to please. Instead, set standards and hold the students accountable to the standards. Her belief was that standards encouraged a student who struggled and taught the student that only cared about the grade that there was more to school than the report card. In watching drum corps rehearsals, I’ve seen the bombastic, ego driven types and I’ve seen standard bearers. Unfortunately some of the eccentric, vicious, bullies in the past were also some of the most brilliant figures in the activity. Some of the ticking time bombs were fired from one corps and were quickly hired by another and changed the history of drum corps. The bottom line is the behavior is often tolerated if the results are good. 

[Musicman1084]

8 hours ago, Brian Tuma said:

The drum captain is the adult in the room (as it were). Sad to see he’s fallen prey to the “that’s the way he is” mindset. I look at kids like that and think how much more they could achieve and how much confidence they could gain by having someone building them up instead of tearing them down. You can be a demanding teacher without being demeaning. 

I remember seeing this video years and years ago, and the reaction by the drum captain when being asked about Ike was my biggest takeaway at the time. The drum captain presented himself in such a mature manner throughout the documentary, often encouraging other students while providing constructive criticism and remaining positive. His first deep breath when he went to answer the question, followed by carefully and reluctantly choosing his words, is quite telling of the atmosphere.  "But things usually turn out well." No amount of reasoning can reverse the psychological effects by that point. I thought I read too much into this the first time I saw it nearly a decade ago, but this one scene is pretty eye-opening given some of the commentary over the past week.

In contrast, the band director speaks for a bit at the end of the documentary and comes across as comparatively calm and a positive presence for his students. Makes me wonder how this relationship ever worked.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Musicman1084

[Terri Schehr]

56 minutes ago, Musicman1084 said:

I remember seeing this video years and years ago, and the reaction by the drum captain when being asked about Ike was my biggest takeaway at the time. The drum captain presented himself in such a mature manner throughout the documentary, often encouraging other students while providing constructive criticism and remaining positive. His first deep breath when he went to answer the question, followed by carefully and reluctantly choosing his words, is quite telling of the atmosphere.  "But things usually turn out well." No amount of reasoning can reverse the psychological effects by that point. I thought I read too much into this the first time I saw it nearly a decade ago, but this one scene is pretty eye-opening given some of the commentary over the past week.

In contrast, the band director speaks for a bit at the end of the documentary and comes across as comparatively calm and positive presence for his students. Makes me wonder how this relationship ever worked.

I had a drum corps staff member tell me to “get screwed” once.  I walked off the field.  I did come back after my fellow members encouraged me to return.  We were all in it together, so I did.  But the moral of the story is here I am, years later telling the story because I remember it so clearly.

[N.E. Brigand]

2 hours ago, MikeD said:

The guy would never have lasted in any band I have taught since my first in 1971. I don't blame the students at all; he is part of the staff hired by the band director. None of the directors I have worked with over time would have put up with him, and neither would I when I was a director.

Each season I would tell our kids something like this before competitions: "There are three things that determine our score and placement. 1) How well we perform; 2) how well the other bands perform and 3) what the judges think. We as a band only control number 1), so go out there and perform your best show for yourselves."

Edit: I will say I saw band staff members from other bands over the years that behaved like Jackson in the video. 

As I've mentioned a number of times, in 1988 and 1989, when I was a junior and senior in high school, the Garfield Cadets / Cadets of Bergen County stayed overnight at our school and rehearsed there the next day while our band rehearsed nearby.

I have no idea who was running Cadets' rehearsals on those occasions, and I'm not sure which of the two years it was, but I distinctly remember our director saying to us, after he watched some of Cadets' rehearsal during one of our breaks, "If I yelled at you the way he yelled at them, I'd be fired the same day."

[GUARDLING]

9 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

As I've mentioned a number of times, in 1988 and 1989, when I was a junior and senior in high school, the Garfield Cadets / Cadets of Bergen County stayed overnight at our school and rehearsed there the next day while our band rehearsed nearby.

I have no idea who was running Cadets' rehearsals on those occasions, and I'm not sure which of the two years it was, but I distinctly remember our director saying to us, after he watched some of Cadets' rehearsal during one of our breaks, "If I yelled at you the way he yelled at them, I'd be fired the same day."

I find it interesting with some responses, YET many people  ( some here responding )have praised some of the prominent staff who " returned to Cadets " It's funny, guess they never saw an actual rehearsal with some who are notorious for lets say their teaching technique. 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by GUARDLING