AFTER GUILTY PLEAS IN 2020, FORMER CORPS DIRECTOR ATTENDS HIS FIRST DCI EVENTS

[Whiskey]

10 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

I would say that it is important to close public comment threads only at the moment that they earn the consequence of closure and not a moment before.

There are lines to be crossed, and potentially much to be said and discussed well before that line is reached.  If we can't take a shot at filling in all the space to the near side of the line, what good is a public forum?

It's okay that threads get shut down... when they deserve to be, and ultimately that is up to DCP.  But for me, as little interest as I have discussing the man, if he chooses to pursue reentry to DCI in any manner... he should probably be discussed with regularity by those willing to do so and for those willing to listen.

My 2 cents.

Perhaps I just play things a little more conservatively when it comes to these things.  I'm approaching this from a different perspective of one who runs a school district.  Should others want to continue to discuss this so other's are informed and we do not forget, please continue to do so.  This is especially understandable as DCI and others just do not communicate out.  

There are other ways as well to handle this.  Some things may even be going on now behind the scenes but we are not privy to that information just like public is not privy to personnel matters when it comes to a school district.  It is frustrating because you wish you could share your side and let people know you are doing something about it, but you just can't.  DCI's problem is they are not even acknowledging they are aware and are handling it, bad PR.  You should always release general PR releases, even if broad in scope.  Maybe I'm being over-precautious but I definitely am not ignoring or wanting facts of this matter to be buried.  That's wrong to say or even hint that any member of this forum is enabling or supporting such a thing. Generalizations and lumping individuals on one side of the issue or another is not healthy nor good.  

I've seen and handled these matters on a couple occasions.  I have called and reported personnel to the FBI, law enforcement, and state certification agencies.  I will not hesitate to do it again in the future, if called for.  I do not support such behavior but there are also policies for each organization to follow.  Public opinion, well sometimes you just have to take it in the chin in order to protect your organization.  I just tend to look at things from all perspectives. 

Quick story semi-related. There was a harassment issue in one of the clubs my son is a part of at his university.  As we talk on occasion about how I approach things from a Superintendent's point of view, he has learned to question and be as objective as possible. As I told him, be transparent and immediately contact authorities to handle and investigate.  That is what they are trained in to do.  Sometimes they substantiate the claim and sometimes they cannot.  Most importantly, if you don't know the whole story or all the facts, then don't assume and wait till you get enough information to form an opinion, especially something as serious as the allegations are.  When his friends were discussing, all he said was he did not have enough facts to make an informed opinion.  He was immediately labeled an enabler and supporter or the alleged offender.  I see that a little in this discussion.  I know just about all of you on this forum have a good heart and the right intentions as I have been on here almost since the beginning of DCP's start.  

Yes, there are facts to this case.  Yes, you do have a right to discuss.  Yes, keep advocating.  We will not forget.  The victims deserve our support and love.  

Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.  

[cixelsyd]

8 hours ago, traverbanking said:

I believe the explanation for the VIP pass is as follows:

    Every inductee into the DCI Hall of Fame is given a life-long VIP pass which gives the inductee free admission to all DCI contests. Since the pass allows admission without a seat assignment, perhaps there is a designated area for such VIPs to watch the contest. It appears that GH did not surrender his VIP pass when he was removed from the Hall of Fame.

If that is accurate... 

... then it is absolutely mandatory that violators of DCI safety policies have their VIP passes revoked.  Anything that generates VIP access, such as Hall of Fame, must also be revoked.  What point is there to any of the background checking and safety programs if you are going to let your headline abuser have a lifetime backstage pass to all events?

[Terri Schehr]

4 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Perhaps I just play things a little more conservatively when it comes to these things.  I'm approaching this from a different perspective of one who runs a school district.  Should others want to continue to discuss this so other's are informed and we do not forget, please continue to do so.  This is especially understandable as DCI and others just do not communicate out.  

There are other ways as well to handle this.  Some things may even be going on now behind the scenes but we are not privy to that information just like public is not privy to personnel matters when it comes to a school district.  It is frustrating because you wish you could share your side and let people know you are doing something about it, but you just can't.  DCI's problem is they are not even acknowledging they are aware and are handling it, bad PR.  You should always release general PR releases, even if broad in scope.  Maybe I'm being over-precautious but I definitely am not ignoring or wanting facts of this matter to be buried.  That's wrong to say or even hint that any member of this forum is enabling or supporting such a thing. Generalizations and lumping individuals on one side of the issue or another is not healthy nor good.  

I've seen and handled these matters on a couple occasions.  I have called and reported personnel to the FBI, law enforcement, and state certification agencies.  I will not hesitate to do it again in the future, if called for.  I do not support such behavior but there are also policies for each organization to follow.  Public opinion, well sometimes you just have to take it in the chin in order to protect your organization.  I just tend to look at things from all perspectives. 

Quick story semi-related. There was a harassment issue in one of the clubs my son is a part of at his university.  As we talk on occasion about how I approach things from a Superintendent's point of view, he has learned to question and be as objective as possible. As I told him, be transparent and immediately contact authorities to handle and investigate.  That is what they are trained in to do.  Sometimes they substantiate the claim and sometimes they cannot.  Most importantly, if you don't know the whole story or all the facts, then don't assume and wait till you get enough information to form an opinion, especially something as serious as the allegations are.  When his friends were discussing, all he said was he did not have enough facts to make an informed opinion.  He was immediately labeled an enabler and supporter or the alleged offender.  I see that a little in this discussion.  I know just about all of you on this forum have a good heart and the right intentions as I have been on here almost since the beginning of DCP's start.  

Yes, there are facts to this case.  Yes, you do have a right to discuss.  Yes, keep advocating.  We will not forget.  The victims deserve our support and love.  

Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.  

I don’t think anyone on here is an enabler but I do believe they’re out there. 

[Whiskey]

1 minute ago, Terri Schehr said:

I don’t think anyone on here is an enabler but I do believe they’re out there. 

Oh, most definitely and totally agree.  

[Poppycock]

8 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I don’t think anyone on here is an enabler but I do believe they’re out there. 

Oh they’re out there! 

[greg_orangecounty]

20 hours ago, TenHut said:

Drum corps celebrates predators??? Get the heck out of here with this crap. Shame on you. No one celebrates predators. 

In the 70's and into the early 80's there was a very prominent person that committed similar acts as George Hopkins pleaded no-contest to, but arguably worse and for a longer period of time.  It was an open secret.  In fact, the situation developed its own macabre gallows humor with some people.  We were kids and we knew, so did DCI, but no one stepped forward.  Presumably out of fear and the position of power this person held. 

40 years later, still no one has stepped forward (to my knowledge) and after all this time probably won't.  Nevertheless, this person is proudly listed on Drum Corps Hall of Fame and I hate that fact.  That's the context I was referring to: "celebrating a predator" and a stone-cold predator this person was.  The good news is this person can no longer do anyone harm. 

[saxfreq1128]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:39 PM, jwillis35 said:

We do not have to like any of this, but the law is clear. His trial is over. I am not sure what other conditions he may be under in terms of parole, if he has any, but I will leave that up to the law. 

The best thing for DCI, fans of DCI, and the members marching DCI is for us to move on and build a better activity. Stop focusing on this guy. Will we remember? Absolutely. Should we keep dwelling on it every time he pokes his face into a show or makes comments on social media? Heck NO! Who gives a flying squirrel what this guy does!!! 

I think Terri and other folks’ points about registered offenders or known offenders who’ve still been able to participate in this community complicates this quite a bit.

Who cares whether abusers still participate in this community? At minimum, victims care, whether they’ve come forward yet or not. Their loved ones care. Whether or not we mean to, everything we do in relation to these abusers is telling victims something about whether we care, or whether we care enough. And that’s telling them something about whether this community of ours is still their community, too.

The GHs of the world already feel like this is still their community … because we persist to let them feel like they’re still a part of it. That is exactly why we have to draw the line. GH showing up at shows does not reflect poorly on GH. We already know he’s a narcissist, as abusers often are. He isn’t the one who looks bad when the rest of us “move on.” We are the ones who look bad — deservingly. It should break our hearts to think that someone who’s been abused in this activity might see abuser being brought back into the fold like nothing happened, simply because the rest of us were too polite to actively put an end to it. It’s not enough to quietly dislike the person. We have to draw a line, and we have to enforce that they do not cross it.

The world doesn’t automatically protect or look out for victims. We want to think that it does. We want to think that we can just say “who cares what this guy does,” be hands-off, assume the best of people, and move on. But that’s just not how it works: being passive does not work. At best, abusers gradually reintegrate themselves, even if only marginally. At worst, future victims feel that coming forward isn’t worth it, because even if the law does something about it, this community — THEIR community — won’t.

I think many of us are making the mistake of seeing this solely as a GH problem. It isn’t just a GH problem. It’s about all of us. And it’s about the future. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by saxfreq1128

[TenHut]

23 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

In the 70's and into the early 80's there was a very prominent person that committed similar acts as George Hopkins pleaded no-contest to, but arguably worse and for a longer period of time.  It was an open secret.  In fact, the situation developed its own macabre gallows humor with some people.  We were kids and we knew, so did DCI, but no one stepped forward.  Presumably out of fear and the position of power this person held. 

40 years later, still no one has stepped forward (to my knowledge) and after all this time probably won't.  Nevertheless, this person is proudly listed on Drum Corps Hall of Fame and I hate that fact.  That's the context I was referring to: "celebrating a predator" and a stone-cold predator this person was.  The good news is this person can no longer do anyone harm. 

I was a marching member in the mid to late '70's and early '80's and I never once heard about this or any other incidents. I'm not saying they didn't happen, but I never heard of any. 

[jwillis35]

10 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

Who cares whether abusers still participate in this community? At minimum, victims care, whether they’ve come forward yet or not. Their loved ones care. Whether or not we mean to, everything we do in relation to these abusers is telling victims something about whether we care, or whether we care enough. And that’s telling them something about whether this community of ours is still their community, too.

Absolutely, and I said nothing to the contrary other than to point out legalities. 

[jwillis35]

36 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:

I think many of us are making the mistake of seeing this solely as a GH problem. It isn’t just a GH problem. It’s about all of us. And it’s about the future. 

This is a great point and as we discuss the measures DCI takes with regards to GH attending shows (or trying to get himself back into the activity) we really have to think about how DCI will handle this with others who have been exited out of the activity for various reasons.