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Ok, now I feel like a COMPLETE jerk! This almost brought me to tears! I definitely get it now. And you know what? I think maybe what gets me more worked up than an "approach" (but I guess I got off track) is the quality issue. Here's the bottom line, I can accept that what Crown does with their approach is great because they do what they do, the way they do it GREAT and people appreciate it! I think what maybe IS an issue though, is when some corps (definitely NOT Crown) just slap a tune together with little care and then sound bad in front of thousands of people. Even some that try to keep things "traditional" don't always do a good job and I just think that an elite drum corps should always bring their best to any performance (regardless of the venue). Crown is obviously doing just that in a unique way and they do play well on the parade rout the more I check out their clips. Obviously, they are prepared. It's unfortunate to me though that some don't even try to do well and obviously Phantom, Boston, Cavies, Madison...AND YES....Crown come to their parades prepared. So shouldn't everyone? Oh well. I definitely get Crown now and again, I feel REALLY bad for what I originally said.

I'd be happy to help lead you to various used/vintage drum corps uniforms. And we won't answer harshly at all! Pat Seidling Stanbury Uniforms

I marched this parade nearly 30 years previous with the "maroon team" and we looked straight ahead, didn't break ranks, were dead serious, and had people watching to see if we did. This is my favorite photo from my time spent at Crown and you know what? It would have never happened without their approach to parades. Isn't this what it is all really about?

A very good friend of mine has a son who made the baritone line! MYNWA

Indeed, an absolutely wonderful fundraiser for any corps. Which is why I personally take the subject seriously. Beyond that, I am one of those people who think parades are fun. Some people hate them, but I see the enjoyment in them as well as the benefit for anyone participating; whether it is for the money or simply for the exposure.

Thanks for all the responses. I was shocked to find out first of all that corps get paid for parades, and I was even more shocked to find out how much! Thanks to everyone who replied, for adding to my knowledge base.

A letter to all involved with the corps: To The Glassmen, This is Chris Romanowski, Percussion Caption Head and Arranger for Atlanta CV All Age Corps. Over the past few years as a DCI Percussion Judge I've had the pleasure of having the best seat in the house for your performances over the summer, and I am saddened to hear of the loss of the Glassmen for 2013. I wish you the best as you reorganize and look forward to seeing you on the field in the near future! Atlanta CV All Age Corps is still in the audition process for all sections. We had the largest turn out ever for our first camp, and plan to field a full corps this season. Our percussion section just purchased all new instruments and can field up to 10 snares 5 quads 5 basses and 14 front ensemble, and feel we will do just that. We would like to field over 60+ horns as well, and are very close. We have not set anything yet, but plan to begin setting spots next weekend, and finish in February. If you are within range of our organization, we would love to help you out for this summer! Feel free to email us at info@atlantacv.org For any information on ALL sections. website http://www.atlantacv.org/ Atlanta CV will join many other corps in waiving registrations fees for anyone from Glassmen looking for a drum corps home for the season.

The drums are gonna be great, but the horns are also taking it up another level if what I heard at the December camp sets a trend.

Sounds like the drumline is going to be on fire this summer... gotta love it.

the average joe at a parade could give two ##### about a corps marching perfectly with straight lines playing Sousa's whatever. But a corps going down the street encouraging the crowd to clap along and playing tunes they'd know will win out every time

Well, I'll take Precision over whatever Crown was doing every day of the year.

Did I miss something? This looks like every other corps I've ever seen or been a part of, in a parade. Slightly dirty feet, slightly dirty drums. Nothing extremely awesome, but nothing terrible. What's this big fuss about? DISH THE DIRT! EDIT: Oh, it's just Crown. Never mind. Have you people seen them before they go on the field? Should be no surprise as to why they do parades their way.

I just LOVE parades! Crown hamming it up, the pristine perfection of Phantom, the amazing intricacies of Cadets at Disney, I DON'T CARE! I LOVE THEM ALL! Seeing a drum corps in a parade is reliving my youth, when straight-legged marching machines were gods, drum lines played the craziest things I'd ever heard, and I just wanted to be a part of that incredible, hair-blowing sound! What is the argument in this thread again? And, by the way, WHO CARES!?

My son will be spending his second summer with the Scouts. I heard the brass opener. I am already in love with the music!

Getting excited for the show. Saw on Facebook where they will be working on Night on Bald Mountain this weekend at camp. Hope the weather doesn't put a damper on anything!

Join us for our first rehearsal of the new year. If you were not able to come to open house, we are seeking members in all sections. Please go to the Join page and complete the registration information. We will be rehearsing 10 am to 5 pm at Fitzgerald Elementary School 15500 Benita Fitzgerald Drive [...] ... Read the rest of the article here - http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2013/01/2013-shenandoah-sound-january-rehearsal/

RED ALERT. Major, if not unbelievable, announcement regarding Renegades 2013 drum staff coming soon to Renegades Facebook page. Get your drum sticks out.

that's pretty much it. money is going to be a big deal. and all those that don't see it have a very rude awakening. as fred said what we did in our time was great. but the pressures on society are taking it's tolls. even pro football is having a hard time attracting fans to the stadiums. this year was the lowest attendance in years. and even they are trying to figure out what to do. so what do you think will happen to an obscure activity like drum corps?

Well, if you want parades, here's one!

fred your right about the limits. but that is our way of thinking. like we have already admitted our time has passed. it's up to the youger ones to carry on. and if it dies that will be because there was no saving it. look there just isn't enough money to generate corps to buy equipment , get the buses, pay the instructors. and on top of that this economy will be with us for years. people will not have the money to do it. as time goes on money will get tighter for people. it's either put food on the table or have fun marching. what do you think is going to be where people put their money. the economy hasn't even been talked about and that's a big thing. in any case what ever happens it will not affect me. i have other interest's. but i hate to see the thing go away. and when john talks about the diehards he dosen't realize it's him and people like him. not us. so it's up to them to figure this thing out. let them amp and synth and put in the woodwinds. we're done anyways.

Having done the Bristol and Wakefield parade, I will say that they are fun as hell parades. Bristol is a huge party. Awesome crowd. They love every corps. We were straight ahead traditional more or less. But when we were stopped for a while we would always turn to a side and play something for the crowd. Crown was the corps ahead of us both years I marched. And boy did the crowd go nuts for those guys! I remember in 08 they would play the end of their show when we were stopped. And you would hear the crowd roar up ahead. That year we played our "Wonderful World" hit from the end of our ballad. Crowd loved that too! But Crown always killed it at parades, and I know the members have a ton of fun. For me it wasn't always a blast. But our horn staff tried to make it fun in a weird way. Trying to make us break. I remember our mello tech shoving a donut in his mouth all at once right next to my line.. trying to make us laugh. Our caption head would yell "Play something!" And of course they would disappear for a little when they would be invited into someone's house for a drink. I had a few fun memories from parades. Not always the funnest part of tour, and I know not everyone in the corps liked it, but I had fun. Now the funnest parades are the Halloween and Christmas parades in West Chester, PA. If you are ever in the area for them, check them out. Especially the Holiday Parade. And the WCU marching band always kills it!

Ditto what Don said.... I especially agree with your thoughts on sustaining field competition. Costs just getting worse in money and time to do corps, including the time needed to travel as members are living farther and farther from their corps.

i don't know who you are but you have given the most intellectual vision of what is to come. i agree 100% of everything you said. the reasons why and what it will mean and evolve into. understand now you are going to get a lot of blow back from this but hang strong because you are right. the seeds have been planted. it's a sad prophesy but me thinks you are spot on!

I march in an open class corps and we do tons of parades and get paid for it. It's really a major fundraiser for us.

Unfortunately, if there is some remnent of corps still alive in the near future, it likely won't be what we now see as alumni corps, nor all-age field corps. The field competition model is just not sustainable. Rising costs and declining fan base have exposed the lop-sided business model of the All-age activity; which depends too heavily on fundraising, volunteer labor and member fees (as well as huge costs absorbed by members). If the activity had to survive only on what the public was willing to pay for the product, it would have died long ago. As corps exit the stage, the model will begin to break down even faster, as recent events in New York have shown. In addituion to that, when you take a look at the total $$ spent each year (and add in the volunteer man-hours to produce the product), and then apply it to performance time acheived and the number of participants served, it's a pretty incredible expence to have this activity. The activity hangs on only due to the determination, hard work and a whole lot of sacrifice, by a relatively small number of participants, who come back year after year. I give them their props, whole-heartedly. But, they won't long be able to fight back the incredible challenges of economics which are working against this model. DCI will survive by melding in with the marching band activity; benefiting from their larger base and built-in parent following; eventually becoming , simply, summer band. Not saying I like it; just think that's the way it is. If there is to be a remnent of drum corps; I think there are two likely types that will survive. A smaller alumni-style group doing parades and passing on the tradition of drums and bugles , much like the fife and drum corps we have today. Each generation bringing in enough of their own children and grandchildren to maintain a local corps that keeps the tradition alive. As long as there are parades to perform in, this type of group could be sustained, without a lot of cost, nor unreasonable effort. I think that there will also be a more progressive, flexible and local type of group that keeps some type of brass and percussion performance activity alive (if not strictly drums and bugles). But that group must find a performance style and business model sustainable in future markets.

Since at least the 1970's. I can recall that in the 1970's when Boston area drum corps, CYO bands, and drill teams had feeder units, the "senior" groups often did larger parades on Memorial Day, July 4th, etc. and the feeder units did local parades. When you think about it, it only made sense to be paid for a parade. Marching units have to pay transportation and staff cost to get to parades. There was also competition to get into parades. The Bristol, RI July 4th parade was the parade equivalent of DCI. Marching in South Boston's St. Patrick's Day Parade meant your unit was ready for the season and led to other parade offers. Parades allowed units to compete. My guess is hat in this financially strapped time, every little bit helps.

Corps members may not particularly like marching in parades, but they are a necessity and a great way for a corps to help the bank account. Why do you think so few (if any) competitive shows are scheduled ON July 4? Many corps will cram as many parades into their schedules around July 4 as they possibly can-even marching as many as 3 in a single day in some cases. Many times, corps that are forced to take a year off from competing because of their finances will still do parades if they have enough members to make a good showing. If you want to see a huge difference in "parade marching styles", go to the parade in Indy that is held on the Saturday of Finals with all the non-finalist corps. The one that got the biggest response at the parade I attended in 2011 was a corps where the members were interacting with the kids all along the route-snare drummers handing little kids their sticks and encouraging them to tap on their drums, and the like. Every parade crowd is different, and even different sections of the same parade are different. Heck, I was in a parade a few years back where the parade had come to a standstill for several minutes, and our horn instuctor called for a "California warm-up" to keep the horns loose-and the crowd around us went nuts! Every corps should have enough songs in their parade book so that the DM can gauge the crowd response and call for tunes that will keep that positive energy going.

Westshore has been getting younger too, but then again, we're generally younger than most alumni corps. and you can't beat the schedule

Eh. You are what you are.

Alright, ya got me. Can't argue with any of this. I'm a believer now. :smile:/>

Ok, I'll accept this. I guess variety is good. Never thought of it that way. I think I was just so impressed with the Phantom video that I got carried away. I just liked what Phantom did, that's all. :) It impressed me. I'll take this response and all the others and stand corrected on Crown. Getting that out of the way now, I pondered having this thread closed but figured lets take a different approach. Since some great videos have been posted as well as stories like the above where parade performances have inspired people. Lets enjoy some of that. No more negative (at least not from me). Sorry for getting carried away, guys. Seriously.

Agreed!

I'll take this response to the bank. :smile:/>

True, but they are getting paid. Agreed Then don't. If you say so.

Disney would NOT be okay with a corps/band taking more than their allotted time to perform. It's extremely standard for Cadets to perform a stand-still at the end of every parade (at least, as of 4 years ago).

The OP is not murdering puppies. I'll even agree that the emails are annoying. But there are simple, common sense ways to solve the problem on your own. Putting it up on DCP to whine about is not one of those ways. Doing so comes across as petty (as though one's looking for a bone to pick), IMO.

are they competing ... no are they entertaining ... yes are they required to participate ... no is your argument pointless ... YES

Polka fans are a mostly older crowd, too.

Dear Ms. Advice Columnist: I’ve got an interesting family. My oldest brother is in jail for selling crack to elementary school children. My youngest brother is attending Stanford University, where he’s in their marching band. My oldest sister is currently on trial for soliciting an undercover police officer in the drive-up lane at Taco Bell and my youngest sister died last year in a meth lab explosion inside her outdoor playhouse. My twin brother is in a coma from falling out of a tree house when he was attempting to do a double gainer into a kiddie pool on a dare for a week’s supply of heroin. My mother is in prison for running a brothel that enslaved Russian immigrants and my father disappeared after street gangs learned he had been selling them fake LSD made up mostly of stevia sweetener. I have two aunts who run a strip club that caters to equestrian midgets and an uncle who scams foreign tourists at airport hotels into buying fake Rolex watches and imitation Gucci handbags made in China. One of my grandmothers bicycled naked through a picnic of Mormon missionaries and the other one owns a cable porn channel specializing in films featuring Australian outback wildlife. Her husband, my step-grandfather, traps and captures those animals, continuing the job started by my grandfather who was eaten by a pack of dingoes. My other grandfather was kicked out of the Westboro Baptist Church for being mentally unstable. I’m dating a wonderful woman and I want to ask her to marry me. However, I think she deserves to know the truth about my family before agreeing to become a part of it. I’d like to hear your opinion on the following: Should I tell her about my brother who’s a member of the Stanford University marching band?

And how do you know the corps are "spitting in the face of those who paid them?" It is entirely possible, even probable, that the parade organizers know what they are asking for, hence why they've asked a particular corps to be in a particular parade and are quite content and even pleased with a corps that breaks "tradition" and... ::EGADS!!::... engages the crowd. Something a tad off to me anyway to see a corps marching lock step down the street in a perfect military block to an Earth, Wind, and Fire chart.

IMO, this seems to be a thinly veiled attempt to ##### and moan about certain corps that you clearly want to call out by name, so why beat around the bush?

Someone on another forum posted a while back asking for advice in starting a corps - my advice was that if you are imagining what they'll wear, the music they'll play or the drill they'll march, you're probably not going to succeed. The work that must be put in prior to that point dwarfs any of the "on field" planning and preparation. Mike

Another thing that makes things easier is today's technology. Regular electronic updates, social network, and performance touchpoints provides opportunities that didn't exist not so long ago. Plus, the level of talent is at a higher level today in most cases. It's really quite amazing how efficient today's performers and instruction staff are. In fact, an entire discussion thread could be devoted to modern instruction and development techniques used by today's music educators.

I marched Surf 03 04 05, Bloo 06 07 08, and Cadets 09. In 2007 at the Centerville Show we were on retreat with the Cavies. (BD was at the show as well.) We are generally shooting the bull in the contra line with Cavies and they are laughing about random junk while scores are being read. "In 3rd place....The Cavaliers!" Total silence. Besides me and my boys in Bloo snickering. I believe this was their first finish lower than 2nd since 1999. (I could be wrong there) "In second place...The Blue Devils!" Now total silence from me and my boys in Bloo. "Uhhh...good job guys..." - Random Cavalier Contra Good times.

I'd throw in 1990 Bluecoats horn line also

I've written about this before, but three years ago I lost my dad and mom within months of each other. I went into the funeral home room before Mom's wake started and found stunningly gorgeous flower displays from Jeff Fiedler, Blue Devils and The Cadets. I was positively overwhelmed because that represented to me what drum corps is all about. I've had countless wonderful moments while marching in corps and corps-related, but that is the moment that sticks with me. Less than three months later, I ran into Dave Gibbs at the WGI World Championship and kind of broke down trying to thank him for what that meant to me at a time I most needed to know I wasn't alone. And that's one reason among many that I'm quick to jump to the defense of the BD and Cadets organizations when I feel they are being unfairly criticized for something. I guess what I'm trying to say is there are many moments when we realize that drum corps people watch out for other drum corps people, are there for them when needed and will never let other drum corps people down.

Dude... What's everybody's deal with George Hopkins. He seems like a pretty OK guy

Again, I think you can have a balance between the two. Honestly, Stanford was my first thought when I saw Crown's approach. Granted, much more tame and hardly as offensive but the wondering and lack of some form of uniformity, just makes me question the purpose.

Just watched the video clips and I also watched the corps that your trying to ##### out, Crown. As ever, Phantom are doing a stellar performance. That's how they are, impeccable and professional. To us drum corps perfectionists that's the way to go. To the average Joe in the street, its pompous and too regimented. I would guess most people would rather watch Crown as they seam to be enjoying it..... at the end of the day they are getting paid for it, shouldn't they play for the paying audience. Your plain wrong for calling out a quality organisation like crown for being unprofessional.