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If that's the case, I've got to cancel the weekend I've paid for in the Poconos.

How often have you seen them live? Have you seen them live at all? For me, Crown is all about the live experience. There are many corps whose shows I prefer to Crown - Vanguard, Phantom, BD, etc. - but getting pinned back by that magnificent wall of sound can't be beat, IMO. I say all this as a percussionist. And the arrangements are usually pretty satisfying too. Conceptually they've been a mess for a few years now, but like some earlier posters I couldn't give two s###s about concepts or themes. I just wanna be entertained, and Crown fulfills that need. If you're a visual person I guess I can see how you'd be a bit of a Crown skeptic. Even though I'm not a visual person I can't really say I've ever been wowed by a Crown drill, for instance. Last year's whiplash drill seemed like overcompensation. The body movement can be a bit excessive, and I think there are other corps who do that better. But for me these are all secondary concerns. Anyways, I've been led to believe that hoards of Crown fans tear apart anyone who dares say anything negative about Crown on this board. Seems they haven't arrived yet . . .

They have an amazing hornline and brass arrangements. And also...we'll...um.. ... Well hornline and brass arrangements are really feckin good

Actually I think the early posters defused this thread pretty well. This thread is downright civilized :-)

It's that hornline. As far back as 04. 06 they came out with some ridiculous sound... and 07 it was so refined and balanced... and it's just been getting better every year! I love their music arrangements all around. Hornline/drums/pit. Even with the change before last season in drums I still love the writing. I love the concepts, they bring you through so many emotions in their shows. However.... their drill just misses. They do some cool things that are like WOW! But not really necessary.... and the rest of their performance suffers because of bad visual design choices. The best complete visual design was 09. Since then? meh... and it has hurt them. Regardless, I still enjoy the #### out of their shows. And seeing them live is a treat. I have friends who aren't their biggest fan.. but once they crank it up you can't help but say wow. I know some have said it reminds them of the good old G bugle days, and it is the only thing that has come close to the power you felt from those lines. (Can't speak from experience).

Not enough context here. You could now be 8-years-old for as far as we know. Honestly, I wouldn't sweat it. One of the wonderful things about drum corps is there's something for everyone. Few people are going to be turned on by every corps. I hope that I am, but that's kind of my job, so I might have a bias to loving everything I see, even if I appreciate some corps and shows more than others. It's admirable that you aren't just stating that you don't care for the corps and you don't care if you ever care about them. Some corps take awhile to grow on people. The year after I aged out, I went to the movie theater and saw Mel Brooks' "Blazing Saddles," which was in the local theater even though it came out four years earlier. I didn't laugh and didn't find it funny. A few years later, I saw it again on television and was in near hysteria at points and still laugh each time I get a chance to see it. Time tends to change our perspectives. When I was a kid, I wouldn't have minded having pizza at every meal. Today, I kind of enjoy eating stuff that has some good fiber in it. We grow, we evolve and we learn to appreciate things we didn't appreciate before. I would suggest doing what you're doing; asking others what strikes them positive about Crown. Maybe if you can try to view the corps through their eyes and ears, you might hit on something. I'll be interested in what others say about what you ask.

I like the one about the Troopers letter to the G7.

In general, I love Crown's shows because they play music I know and like, and they put their own twist on the arrangement, and they play it LOUD, which I also happen to like. They march great, the drumming seems to match the music, and they spread the show from endzone to endzone, which is visually interesting from the second tier seating. Every time I've seen Crown in the last few years, they hit the field READY TO GO, full show, nothing held back. The kids seem to like what they're doing, and I enjoy watching that kind of passion and performance on the field. I've got 30 years with my butt in the bleachers. A Crown show is as great, and as fun as it gets! +++ Edited: I just noticed the OP's name is Spin Me, so maybe Mr/Ms Spin is looking at visual elements I'm too dumb to understand. I am a dumb drummer by reputation, but I go to shows to hear horn lines amaze me with their musicality and their power. I think it's perfectly OK for different people to see/hear different things that they like in the various corps. I think it is these differences that make life, and drum corps shows, worth living for.

Blue Devils: (2012 menu) One of those French dishes with a couple peas drizzled in something red, accompanied by a julienned carrot and a square of foie gras with a slice of a truffle on top. It tastes really great, but many state they have no idea what they're eating. Carolina Crown: Something carbonated and bubbly that puts a fizz in one's nose as the drink goes down. Phantom Regiment: Crème de la crème. The Cadets: No matter what the waiter brings to the table, people will keep talking about the waiter and not the food. Santa Clara Vanguard: Smooth chocolate bar that melts in the mouth. Bluecoats: Flaming hot saganaki with a little extra brandy. Boston Crusaders: Pasta and other essential comfort food. The Cavaliers: Cornbread cut into assorted geometric shapes. Madison Scouts: Tabasco sauce. Blue Knights: Snow cone. Spirit of Atlanta: Peach cobbler. Crossmen: Something trucked in from over 1700 miles away. Blue Stars: Hamburger some years, filet mignon others. Glassmen: The dessert cart one regrets not paying better attention to as it was rolling by. The Academy: Soup. Pacific Crest: The food pyramid personified. Colts: A solid course that is rarely given the number of stars it deserves. Troopers: Beef jerky and other food that travels well in a saddle bag. Oregon Crusaders: Veggies of every color arranged artistically on a plate; healthy yet tasty. Jersey Surf: Pizza and Coke, with a Pop Rocks appetizer. Blue Devils B: A firm aged Cheddar with a hint of horseradish and cayenne pepper. Vanguard Cadets: Smooth chocolate bite-sized bar that melts in the mouth. Mandarins: Eggrolls and apple pie. Spartans: Buffalo Wings. Cascades: Something far more spunkier than its size would lead you to expect. Gold: Food from a hidden gem of a small diner few people know about, but you tell all your friends to stop there. Pioneer: Irish soda bread.

But that's only your personal opinion. Crown's show just bore me to tears. Probably because I'm more of a percussion/visual person. Nothing about their shows draw my eyes; they just glaze over and wander around so that I'm stuck watching their timpani/bass players just saunter around the backfield after their intro last year. Or I check out their guard soloist who's just kind of skipping around the field. So then a chord comes out of nowhere because they can't keep their volume up when running, jarring me back to reality, only to have them start a brass feature, while sitting on the ground. I was kind of with you on your first paragraph (after I deciphered the English), but why do you have to attack the OP after that? The OP clearly feels like they're missing out on something and, since they love drum corps so much, doesn't want to miss out on this so-called excellence. But every time they ask someone what they're missing, they just get accused of starting a bait thread. This is why we can't have nice things. Also, if you really think it's a bait thread, you wouldn't have responded. Instead, you respond and tell the OP you won't waste words on their thoughts...after wasting words on their thoughts.

There is a portion of Crown's 2012 show after the 7:00 mark that is just mallets. It's part of Copland's Symphony #3 and it's incredibly light and delicate. It's such a tribute to Copland. Their show is also such a tribute to Moren. When I listen to Crown I hear the composer. I don't hear the arranger.

To tie into that, I really appreciate how Crown isn't afraid to vary their styles from year to year. For example, the differences between their 2011 production vs their 2012 production likely couldn't be more varied: rock music vs Copland?! Not only were the styles super different, they were executed well and at the very least designed competently (if not great)

I don't understand why posters continually harp on instrumentation changes as some big line-item in a corps budget. It's food and transportation costs that are the two big ticket items. Not something that is maybe 2 to 4% of $1000k budget in the acquisition year and significantly less after that. Want to make drum corps more sustainable? You probably ought to start with the BIG line-items in the budget. Diesel has gone from $1.11 in 1994 to $3.96 in 2012. Think maybe THAT affects the bottom line? And food prices are very much affected by transportation costs which are affected by fuel costs. Hmmm..... Electronics may affect initial costs for a start-up corps (although you can certainly add electronics incrementally -- you don't NEED it all at once) but it's not killing sustainability.

Individual tastes indeed! "Finis" may be my favorite Crown show--so fun!

...we NEED #### like this! BRAVO! cg

I always find this interpretation odd. Crown fans typically enjoy Crown's show far more than BD's show, so of course they hope Crown will win and BD won't. It's not a matter of latching onto Crown just because they aren't BD. Of course, when your favorite corps/show is in second place, it seems far more possible that they *could* win, and so you'll be far more interested and excited to discuss it.

*shrugs* People like different things. If you don't enjoy what Crown's creative staff comes up with, that's fine. Lots of people do. Have you seen Crown perform live? Live, their brass and Klesch's arrangements are the part that moves me the most, but then I'm a brass player. I also appreciated their tributes and honor (direct and indirect) of DCI history in the 2007-2009 shows. But in the end, it's fine if you don't like their shows.

Why do you seem to have this compelling need to be persuaded to like something that you don't like ? And if you think I 'm interested in trying to persuade you to like something that you don't like, given the choice, I 'd rather try to spin you to sleep, SpinMeToSleep.

I'd be surprised if you'll find that many people willing to go $50 on it. Harcore fans, yes, but for folks who might be curious, or legacy fans who are on the fence about how they feel about the new style shows, it might be a stretch. $39 sounds more realistic, and $29 sounds like it'd be a golden mean. After all, it's still just sitting in front of the computer or tv. They could also offer two streams - a high cam for $20 something or a multi-cam for an increased price ($49 for multi?). DVDs are dead. Physical audio/video media is a 20th century concept, and there's no point putting much energy into creating DVDs anymore, unless the DVD contains a lot of bonus material that isn't available anywhere else. People who want to attend Finals will still go, since a live event is always better than watching it on the tube. I've gone to a few Super Bowls, and even if you have less than great seats, you go for the party, not just to watch the game. (Speaking of that, can someone hire DCI an "event specialist" who can try and make the Finals event more interesting than it is? Right now, it has all the ancillary excitement of waiting around for a 10 minute oil change. As Johnny Carson once described the Oscars, "two hours of sparkling entertainment dragged out into a four hour extravaganza.")

DISCLAIMER: THIS POST IS NOT TO START A FIGHT (of course that is near impossible of dcp) Ok, so here's the deal...I am NOT a drum corps rookie. I have been around the activity since I was 5. I understand show design and such. But I'm not seeing it in Crown's shows. I want to like Crown and all I hear are amazing things about their shows...but I just don't get it. Someone PLEASE explain what is so fabulous about them, show me videos sound clips anything just help me because all I get from their shows is that they are OK at the max and underwhelming. I must be missing something.

Timpani Nachos! Killer!

I love the moment when the on-field percussion judge is almost caught in the crown-to-crown transition at the end of "Finis" -- and I just noticed that it happens at both Allentown and at Finals.

Couldn't agree more.

your theory was that electronics in the pit added a whole semi truck to the convoy. my point is...not true.

Well, it's kind of difficult to select board members from the directorships from all the World Class corps when only one director is a woman, and this is her first year as such with a World Class corps; Colts. (Granted, she was chair of the Open Class corps while director of Colt Cadets and she's got a brilliant mind...but I suspect even her most ardent supporters would want her to bet comfortable with her directorship before introducing her to another responsibility that would sap her time from her new position.) Besides...would you push someone you really loved and respected into that cuddly pit of teddy bears?

That's because Crown took off the heads of every timpani, disconnected the bases with the pedals and removed the legs to the bowls after ever show, then stacked the bowls inside one another, stacked the bases on top of each other and stuck the legs in the same cabinets as the flag poles. I thought everyone knew that.

Maybe, but I suspect if DCI considered streaming Finals they would eliminate one or both of the theater presentation or the Semis stream. As for youtube, I also suspect it's possible DCI & its member corps might be more vigilant with 'policing' that if they thought a primary revenue stream was being adversely affected. I also think someone who would rather watch a mediocre (at best) homemade video on youtube vs. a professional quality live stream is likely the type of miscreant who is self-entitled and will not pay for any sort of product produced by DCI

Personal taste is often impossible to justify/quantify & I've found it futile to try to debate personal taste: you either like a particular style or sound or you don't (see the billion posts on DCP from people who dislike Blue Devils 2012). In regards to Crown, the one thing that is fairly undeniable is that their brass line is consistently one of the best in the activity. They have an incredible characteristic sound, and execute at a very high standard. For many people, that alone is enough to be interested in Crown, if not be a fan. On another level, I suspect that many people are excited to see someone new challenge for a Championship: most people love an underdog and want to root for 'the new corps' to beat the 'old multi-champion corps.'

At the onset of last season, I wasn't blown away by Crown. They did grow on me though. I think much of the buzz remains from last year's finals where fans were boarderline disrepectful for BD, hoping that Crown would unseat them. To a certain extent, I think some of that sentiment remains. Nonetheless, Crown's show was excellent. As for 2013? There's a few other corps out there that could challenge too. Regardless of placement, I do understand and appreciate the connection we get from certain shows. Sometimes it really does boil down to a matter of taste. It's great to have the variety!

That is a great point. We all have individual taste in what we like. I've loved Crown since their "Jekyll and Hyde" show in 1999...I think that is the first year I saw them live. They have been pretty much near the top of my favorite list every year since... ...except for Finis and their Mythology (yipes!) years.

Its possible. One DCI corps has dipped their toe in the DCA pool. Maybe it will start a trend. Another DCA corps is never a bad thing.

I like them "because". That is all.

That's why I stated, " I'll be interested in what others say about what you ask." I personally learned long ago not to question why I like something and to just enjoy liking it. That works for me; it might not work for others. I'm still interested in what others think. I've never been all that interested in why I think what I think...although I'm still trying to figure out my love of cheese.

Well, as vehement as you are, I don't think anyone is going to convince you. Sorry. Just enjoy the corps you do like. Mike

I don't see why this is expected to be turned into a battle zone of a thread. He's asking a question, why not answer him? To me it's simple, nobody's shows are going to appeal or be enjoyed by everyone. They're missing something you enjoy. What that is, I don't know. But I can definitely respect this. There's another corps I feel the same way about, and one of my friends feels the EXACT same way about Crown. I don't necessarily agree but, I respect that because it's his own personal opinion. Not really an answer, I know, just some common sense before people start the OMG U DON'T LIKE CROWN UR CRAZY?! stuff.

Troll much?

Have the learned Battle Hymn, IYM, or Bobo yet? Hope 2013 is a GREAT year for Sun!

Dude - you have waaaay too much time on your hands! Is it June yet?

:( I was hoping that this was going to be about what we liked most from the food truck on tour. Drats!

Not sure why 3 of your total 3 posts on DCP (since you've joined 9 months ago) have some kind of negativity toward Cadets2... Could be just a coincidence? I'm sure there are other worthwhile topics of interest you'd like to take part in? You must be a Drum Corps NUTT! Because clearly your intentions here are very transparent. C'mon a separate "bashing" account?! Wonderful.

I think a better option for Phantom (at least recently) would be pufferfish. It is supposed to be really good, but it might kill you in the end!

Don't forget colorguard! (Yes, I realize they got third, but it was a a half-point from first). Just a few minor tweaks and it can be their year!

It's great. Some people just take themselves too seriously.

I think its a great vlog. Pretty funny in my opinion.

It’s odd how a lot of this 7 debate is breaking down bando lines, well I guess not odd. Many bandos never respected drum corps for being drum corps

I've been following George, his blog, All Access, etc. for years and I don't see much change. If all he cared about was winning he wouldn't take the risks that people on here have bashed him for (narration, show characters, electronics, etc). People see what they want to see. You can look for consistency or inconsistency. He is human. He makes errors. He contradicts himself. So what? Do none of the other directors or none of you do the same? One consistent message I've always heard is that the Cadets are about teaching young people to be magnificent human beings. The quest for excellence drives that. It's why they keep score. But striving to win doesn't mean you fail when you don't. I think you can say you want to win but it isn't everything and not be two-faced. George is a great leader. I've learned a lot. If you choose to only see negative then that is what you will see.

Not quite sure what drum corps will be like in 2033, but pretty sure there will be plenty of old school drum corps grumps complaining about it on DCP . Hey, that's how this activity grows!

I hear what you're saying. I guess people use the word 'risk' in so many ways. Choosing to play the Betrand Moren charts virtually as written could be considered a huge risk. Choosing to pair that chart with their visual book (both drill and guard book) could be considered risk x 2. BD risks more in the "unconventional" design department. (although I don't think their book is somehow easy by any means.). The word "risk" is probably worth it's own thread. FWIW (for me at least) risk is about creating a program with clear exposure of multiple simultaneous demand.. While being 'safe' might be smarter sometimes, I appreciate drum corps that makes my jaw drop. That doesn't mean just higher, louder, faster -- playing beautiful exposed brass lines with the corps covering the entire field is just as exciting. I guess it comes down to this: I like turning to the person next to me and saying "that was just freaking ridiculous".

If you add up the number of high schools with band programs who have begun to actually care about doing marching band well, as opposed to just dragging out some s___ty 1950s drums and playing "Mr Touchdown" five Saturdays each fall, the answer is "lots more." Local, community based drum corps still exists, it's just called "marching band." DCI actually WON that debate, which is why the corps that exist now at the mid-level and above are so much better, musically, then the same level groups were back in the 70s and early 80s. In the 70s, even the best corps were going out there with fewer than full ranks, and you could show up in May and find any number of top corps eager to get you on the field, because they had openings. We have many more 'training corps' than we did, and more kids marching in drum corps-influenced programs. They might be called 'bands' but that doesn't change the reality. Drum corps has evolved into something that is much harder to do well then it used to be, and we have a huge network of band directors out there that are doing the dirty work of prepping their kids to audition for corps. Be a gracious winner and accept the victory.