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Mods, I apologize if this is not the appropriate place for this topic and understand if it needs to move. This was the best place I thought to place it per previous Sound Sport discussions. I am pleased to announce that Sound Sport's first group in the Southeast United States will be headquartered in Atlanta, GA. Sound Sport Atlanta has been a project in motion since the very day DCI announced the new format. Over the coming months, we will be working closely with DCI to ensure the combined success of Sound Sport Atlanta as well as the activity as a whole. Many of the details are still to be determined, but the initial image for this group is a 40+ member brass ensemble with additional rhythm section and conductor. Current prospective members include veterans of such drum corps as Carolina Crown, Madison Scouts, Cadets, Blue Stars, Spirit of Atlanta, Glassmen, Teal Sound, Star of Indiana, and even a few members of the most recent touring cast of BLAST. In addition, World Class staff members have made themselves available for instruction and consultation. The future looks very bright. Personally, as a drum corps veteran but non-musical professional, I am excited to get the ball rolling on a new creative outlet for musicians everywhere, especially those in pageantry. In addition to providing a home for age-outs, down the road we intend to help the next generation of talented drum corps participants in the Atlanta area prepare themselves for the demands - physically, musically and otherwise - of World Class junior drum corps tour. Sound Sport is the perfect way to grow drum corps and provide drum corps vets a creative outlet after they age-out. We have setup Facebook and Twitter pages for any and all current communications. Please take a moment to consider following us and continuing to support music and music education! http://www.facebook.com/SoundSportAtl http://twitter.com/SoundSportATL Have an idea? Interested in more information or participation? Send us an email at soundsportatl@gmail.com! We look forward to hearing from you. Best, Jordan Walker

I use the snowboarding terminology instead: regular vs goofy. "Regular" means you're using your body the way nature intended, with your knees and joints doing the jobs they were designed to do. "Goofy" is its own self-explanatory adjective.

Hate to say it but lot's of people are thinking it. This thread is getting tiresome.

Right now, we do not have an "age limit" but we expect members to be able to move and play at a World Class drum corps level.

Dan, this is me jumping in late, because I wanted to think this response out well. We live in a world where everytime I see a video game commercial, the new game is even more violent than the last. movies with death and violence are promoted at all hours of the day and night. same with tv same with books in the advent of the situation in CT, I have seen a large gun show cancelled because asualt weapoins were not going to be allowed. Then I saw a new gun show anounced that people could not wait to sign up and attend and exhibit. Oh, just saw a commercial for violent movie. guns blazing! So, in our tiny niche activity, I really doubt a piece of wood, usually taped white, that almost sort of resembles the hunting rifle Elmer Fudd uses is going to turn people away from the activity in masses or terrify new ones from ever coming.

I guess Yanni would be one step from hell. ;)

I gather there's some history on these forums where anytime you cite Fiedler as having said that, you get criticized, or in this case, voted down. I don't understand what that's about. That said, and as I mentioned before, I can't blame Fiedler for that remark! He had done what he could to stop amplification, but once it was allowed, he probably figured that corps would be penalized for not taking advantage of the new tools. Isn't that a perfectly reasonable position? And the Cavaliers made less obnoxious use of amplification (pre-synthesizer, anyway) than many other corps. That's my emphasis added to your comment, because no one's seriously talking about a spending cap "always" working, and everyone knows that under any rules there will be "some" exceptions. But does a bigger budget correlate to a higher score most of the time, or not? If it does, that may be an indication that more money yields better scores. Yes, yes, I know correlation is not causation, but lacking any better data... well, I'll just note that almost everyone on both sides of this argument seems to agree that there is a connection, since those most opposed to a cap see it as "penalizing" success.

"Dynasty - the Volvo of drum lines."

DOOPS!! Sorry, my bad... I guess I shouldn't ask how many championships Blue Devils won on Dyna....oops there I go again!!

Turn the feet out, and moving the heel over and across the planted foot to take a step isn't particular stressful on the joints. Harder work for the muscles, but that's true of any athletic activity. I'll start to believe that there's any real physiological advantage to straight leg when I start see football players, basketball players, or sprinters running with straight legs. Until then, it's just a product of the Drum Corps Ministry of Silly Walks. YMMV, of course.

I can clarify a little further - we plan to have a similar instrumentation to traditional drum corps, and perhaps the inclusion of other brass instruments a la BLAST!. Right now we are pulling in, on the majority, drum corps vets with exceptional brass training. Our ensemble will have a familiar drum corps sound, though not identical. Additionally, while show/programmatic details are thin right now, I can say we will NOT be playing the "best of" DCI charts. Does that help?

Happy Birthday, Madison! 2/8/1938 to 2/8/2013, and still going strong.

Placement is influenced by MANY things. Spending is but one. Any corps performance can be aided by political influence, prior friendships, a charismatic leader, crowd reaction, what the "boss wants," etc. This is a human enterprise. There are frailties. In a 10 corps show, there will be but one (1) corps proclaimed winner. Yet, the other 9 are not losers. Imposition of a spending cap is not likely to change this dynamic.

Oh, look! They're bringing back the regional tour model! This just gets better and better. Thank you DCI!

I imagine there are others who will be casting their lines into the water soon. Wait until the bigger HS band states get going. Time to buy some ear plug stock. As this project grows it may not be long before there will be two divisions (initially), U-22 and O-22. Great start SSA and Ohio.

1965 Grey Knight Crusaders - a show I never saw but have always wished that I had. 1969 Yankee Rebels - a show for the ages. Saw them at DCA that year. 1972 Skyliners - competed against them several times and they scared the *&*^ out of me:)) What a sound.

Feidler believed what he said at the time it was voted...and funny. when he finally added them, he also spoke of competing with one arm tied behind his back when not having them. however, money doesnt always equal good. we have seen some shows where small fortunes were spent on design, and the show sucked and didn't place well. thats why a spending cap, transfer fees etc will never work

Well, you may be right, and the 8 (of 20) directors who voted against amplification when it passed actually were ready to spend that money a year later, and Fielder's argument that I quoted a few times (and won't quote again), arguing that too many changes were happening too fast and taxing corps resources, was just hot air. As for slow and deliberate change, you probably remember that it was said in 2003 that allowing "A" was not going to be a "gateway" leading to "E". And yet, five years later, there was "E"! Should the 7 (of 18) corps who voted against "E" in 2008 have known better, and set aside funds for "E" in the intervening period?

This group is going to be a force to be reckoned with. I'm very excited to see how it develops.

I dig this, from what I'm hearing this will be a great group to start this DCI senior mini-corps stuff off. When I move to Georgia this summer I will be definitely checking this out.

Yes you are Right. DCA Championships were in Allentown. The show I am talking about was sponsored by District American Legion in Scranton. I believe many did call it a DCA Regional. And Yes, Empire DID win the FANS a lot that year.

Great news! Make sure to take lots of pictures and video and show everyone outside of Ohio what this thing can be!

The prize is a lifetime ban.

I think 1990 was in Allentown, but Empire lit up the spot either way.

Not to steal away SS-ATL's great announcement, but I've now presented DLB to three band directors in my area (central Ohio) and all three said "Yep, we're in!" We're shooting for 10 ensembles to compete. The stage will be our Dublin, Ohio show on July 30th. The response has been terrific, with all three talking about SS ensembles as well. This is gonna be a hoot!

well, I do think if the sheets were weighted more towards performance, as well as either visual gives props for musical demands, or music doesnt have to devote so much attention to visual demands, I think some spots shift here and there, and numbers tighten up....spreads diminish. Another factor IMO is by say Allentown, you have some corps that are outperforming their book. A lot. the judges need to grow the needed set to say so with numbers. yes ego will always be an issue. maybe its time for the judging community to fight back at some egos.

Thank you both for the support. Boo - I'll be sure to do so. I thought this might pique your interest!

At 1968 VFW nationals, there were 13 units on the field, and 3 of them were from Racine. the Champion Kilties, 9th place Racine Scouts, and the Championship Racine Elks Youth Band. The Scouts also took second in the color guard championships. The Kilts and Elks between them had over 5 national championships in the 60s.

back to pearl

What a great man. And how he beamed, especially when the corps celebrated its 75th in 2009. May the Lord grant him the reward of his many good labors and may he rest in peace. Amen. FHNSAB

Just curious But after 10 pages, are you a Crown fan now, did they change your mind?

Wow, a negative reply already. Truth hurt about the kind of people are in here or something?

I'm glad we are all answering the question about Pioneer and not just using several pages to mock the person for calling them The Pioneers. But while we're on the topic, here are a few thoughts. Glad we're all making assumptions about how/why this was done. My 90 year old grandmother calls the grocery chain known as Jewel, the Jewels. Maybe you all can stop by her house and make fun of her. I don't see us ripping apart Crocker at finals for saying the corps name with the word the at the beginning in such a long dramatic way, even though when they are written about in liner notes of CD's and program books, most corps don't have the word the in front of their name. People from non-English speaking countries chime in on the Blue Devils, and other facebook pages expressing their desire to be in "blue devil band" as I have seen written. But cool, someone calls a corps the Pioneers and we all have a coronary. So those of you that want to keep going with this thread, stop by Villa Park, Illinois sometime. I'm a special needs teacher, you can come and hear/see how they talk, I bet you'd have a great time, since it seems that is the route many of us have chosen. Back at the fun! I'll get you contact info if you want to stop by the school.

It's a story I tell every now and then but since you know the guy.... Paul Gieger and I go to 1977 pre-season show at Danville. RI had an off year in 1976 for them and Westshore was on the way up (11th in 1976 DCA). Westshore couldn't make the Danville show due to one of the bands going to the Indy 500 and Larry didn't want our debut show to be hol(e)y. One of the things we wanted to see was if Matadors were still "down" and how that compared to our improvement. So four of us including my soon to be ex-girlfriend pile in my Mustang II (gad what a tight fit) and go to Danville. Mats come out with the "Spanish bedclothes" unis and we snickered. Then the show kicked off and our jaws hit the ground. We were sitting next to bottom row in stands that were litterally sitting on the ground. Bottom row people had their feet on the same level as the field. So end of the Rodeo opening we had screaming sops coming RIGHT at us and bells at face peeling level. Paul and I just looked at each other for a bit then..... "ain't gonna beat 'em this year"... Still one of my favorite DC memories..... 77 and 78 shows are on YouTube (can say that now) and watch 'em every now and then.

No. I do not make that assumption, because: - there may be another corps A that will pay that transfer fee - kids may not march corps B to begin with, if their transfer fee discourages movement to the corps A they ultimately want to march with It sure would help PC if, say, they have 50 members leaving for other corps each year. That would add $25,000 to their annual budget. Yes, there is the concern that kids will not march a corps B whose transfer fee is high. So corps B will not be wise to charge a high transfer fee (or any fee!), unless they are in such high demand or so skilled at recruiting that they know they can fill their ranks anyway. If that is the case, then they really are performing a service to the entire activity by bringing so many kids into DCI and training them to move onto the corps they could not make otherwise. If we imagine that kids are already marching in HS band and one or more corps Bs in order to get the necessary edge to win that corps A audition, they are already making tremendous extra effort. A transfer fee system requires no additional effort on the part of the marcher. I lost you there. Why would any of this require the marcher to "pay more to march corps B"? No one has to pay transfer fees. They all have the option of recruiting their own members, instead of auditioning the alumni of other corps, if finances are really that tight. Why is that a negative? If top corps take more recruits from outside the activity, that means more kids get to march DCI. That is a positive! Yes. But that is not a problem - it is an opportunity. A corps desperate for members could use a free transfer policy as a recruiting enticement. Meanwhile, a corps more interested in loyalty could set transfer fees high, and weed out the corps hoppers. Sure. There is also the benefit of learning from a greater variety of instructors when you march more than one corps. Do not misunderstand me. I have no problem with kids moving from one corps this season to another the next season. Some corps directors, however, do have a problem with it. They feel that, because of a wide variety of factors that have mired the current competitive placement order in rapidly drying concrete, their corps are essentially serving as feeder units for the corps above them. They feel that they perform a service to the activity by recruiting these kids and training them, to the benefit of whichever corps they subsequently march with. I am not sure how true that is - but if it is true, then the corps above them would be willing to pay for that service. A free market transfer fee system would settle this matter once and for all. By allowing each corps to set their own fee levels, they choose their own fate. Top corps with hundreds of auditionees to choose from will only pay transfer fees if the training provided by corps B is worth that money. The main reason I bring up this topic is to flesh out the details. It is entirely possible that a proposal along these lines might be made within DCI. I would not want to see a simplistic approach like a mandatory transfer fee set by DCI for all corps - that would hurt some corps. It could have nasty negatives if done the wrong way (like a one-size-fits-all fee imposed by DCI - ugh). In any case, thank you for the intelligent discussion. You clearly gave this some thought, and have a good grasp for the details.

One word: Texas. There's a reason this is in a small indoor gym. Even a drafty domed stadium could play havoc with this. It is pretty cool though.

Pretty cool... and I did do a WG show to that and other versions of Paint It Black!

Who remembers headchoppers? Love this. But outdoors? HH

That's what I figured. Thanks for explaining though. FWIW... I like the old stuff better... seemed more musical??(I know some will argue) I just hear a lot of ramming notes today... that you can't hear in the dome anyway... just sounds like a constant buzz roll!! I also feel like drum lines play it more safe now? Especially when it comes to volume... there was some awesome in your face stuff going on! One thing about nowadays, with pit amplification, I really enjoy that added layer to the sound. At impact points the pit isn't limited to all the loud banging things anymore... you can actually hear some pretty awesome stuff going on in the pit on the keyboards. Basically overall I feel with the way things are judged now, we are losing the music in drum corps and the marching activity in general. I really do feel like a change to just judging music, and just judging visual might be needed. That way a corps cannot get away with focusing on just one aspect of the activity. Yeah, it is set up 50/50 right now.. but we know it isn't being judged that way, so we need to enforce that. My question is, how do we do that without losing consideration of simultaneous demand and layered and environmental responsibilities? Do the sheets need to be changed? Or is it the judges themselves that have to change?

Edited for accuracy.

The Universal Condiment !

whoever scores highest

Popular?

A) Lots of groups spin non-guns (technically, they all do). I seem to recall "Oprah Commas" coming out when I marched. Oprah didn't like girls spinning guns in this day and age either, and someone invented a thing that looks like a comma but has similar visual effect to a prop rifle. However, I believe if a child is old enough to make the association between the (rather non-rifle-looking) rifles on the field and a real rifle, and strong enough to attempt to weild one, the kid has likely already been made well aware of the dangers he or she is facing. B) It's handgun violence that's increasing. Not that I think that matters a great deal. However, I think it is hard to associate gun violence with drum corps. Were they spinning AK 47s, perhaps. But our culture doesn't glorify "bustin' a cap" with a repeating rifle. Gang stabings are in the news locally, and I never thought to consider that the high school has a sabre line... I should think that the presence of the USMC drum corps (and recruiters) at finals, the numbers of corps members that enter the military, the awesome thing with BD after retreat, and the presence of sabres, flags, plumes, the roll step, saluting, uniform apparel, the Troopers, etc culminate in the activity being something less than "well beyond" its military roots. I think you and Oprah are fighting an imaginary monster.

Well, everyone knows (as I'm sure you do) that the use of rifles as equipment stems from the good ol' days when the color guard actually guarded the colors with sabres and rifles. I think that there are many things that drum corps do today that aren't necessary, but are important because they remind us of the history of drum and bugle corps I believe that it's important to hold onto these little links to the past, even in the face of political incorrectness (or whatever you would call Daniel's arguement).

They are used because they are familiar, not because there just 'needs to be a gun'. I designed for loads of guards and winterguards over the years. There are a billion other things to use. A couple of examples... I had one guard using some large rainsticks. The sound was very very cool. I had another guard spinning something that I created that was inspired by hard brushes that snares use. It was a large wooden dowel with a series of smaller dowels that wrapped around the center dowel. They were fastened in the middle with a smooth rubber sleeve about a foot long. When you would spin and catch, it was actually as much a percussion instrument as it was a piece of visual equipment. It was quite interesting to work with. There were all kinds of crazy things like this that we experimented with. There is SO much that can be done. I've tried it and only scratched the surface of what the many brilliant minds that are currently doing this could envisage.

well, I'll be honest...he's only parroting what his mentor and idol made a stink about back in, what 2001? usually when Dan gets an idea, it's easY to tracE where the ideA came from

James Mason just posted on Facebook this remarkable bit about Madison Scouts' 2013 show. To the brotherhood, On this special day I’d like to share some things with you about our 75th anniversary show. The production is entitled “CORPS OF BROTHERS – 75 years of survival”. When I took the artistic director job for the Madison Scouts my eyes were set on doing this show for multiple reasons: • First of all, what a privilege and awesome responsibility it is to be in charge of the creative for the 75th! • 75 years of survival, with all the challenges of a non-profit, is an amazing tribute to all that have been a part of this organization • Doing a show that would be an example of ultimate survival is something that excited me– I had read a book back in 2009 called “Lone Survivor” by Marcus Luttrell. The book inspired us and is going to serve as a non literal guide line for our creative team • After meeting and spending time with some special-op personnel I knew I wanted to honor these young men and my own son. It was time to recognize the selfless gift that all people who have served our country (including the ones within our brotherhood) bestow on us - the lovers of freedom. It was important to do a show that would allow recognition of all Scout Brothers by having a special moment carved out in it. In Madison, at our home show, there will be a special 30-minute rehearsal with all alumni in attendance invited to help us create this special surprise. I will keep you posted as to the time and place when the event draws closer. For those not in Madison that day, there will be a special video posted of that event the next day after the show! Saying all this, I want to wish each of you good health and safe travels in the journey of life as we truly “never walk alone”. My Best, James Mason

As was yours. Rifles were primarily designed to kill living things. Also, the rifle emerged in the 15th century... long before most of the world even knew about the land we now call "America". Not exactly apple pie. Just saying.

If you want parity, have all corps do the same show, have a round-robin "draft" to fill all corps so talent is spread out evenly, and maybe pick the staffs at random. Of course all money should be spread evenly so nobody has more or less. Also remove any name or identity from individual corps, just have corps a, corps b, etc since we know there is some bias in judges' minds for certain corps histories. What an exciting season that would be..