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He was judging GE Brass on night in 80 or 81 and paid our drumline a compliment on his tape ... he said: "the best thing I can say about your drumline is that they don't bother me" ... :-)

"...they don't bother me" ... He was known for his economy of expression and poetic delivery. (Little wonder that Andy the Wordsmith appreciates that.) Anticipating a detailed lecture, I once asked him for some arranging advice, specifically whether he thought I had over-written a certain part of Garfield's book. "A tad.", was all he said. At that moment I realized the TRUE meaning of understatement.

Dinosaurs Constantly Infuriated That or "Football Field Concert Band Electric Boogaloo."

They will never allow helicopters on the field. Until George and the Cadets decide they want to do Miss Saigon.

In light of the latest changes in instrumentation, and the previous addition of synths to Drum Corps International show designs over the last decade, I've been wondering about where Drum Corps International might be trying to go. Also, all the little comments from people in this group and other place have got me wondering where Drum Corps International is ultimately headed. At first, I believed that Drum Corps International was positioning itself as the best of the best in the marching band world; sort of the ultimate in marching music, and maybe one step above BOA/MFA and the various state and regional circuits. In that context, it would make sense for them to try to open up the instrumentation and be seen as being all that more inclusive and draw in more potential participants ( using their logic). Now after doing a bit of research, I'm not so sure that has been the goal for a long while. I began thinking about the person who proposed this latest change in DCI instrumentation, Jim Mason, and his previous drum corps involvement with Star of Indiana, Brass Theater, and finally Blast! at MEG ... I began thinking about BD Entertainment and how the recent BD shows have gone in a pretty different direction from the rest of the Drum Corps International activity and ticked off some of the "traditional" drum corps fans along the way. I began thinking about how many BD fans described their shows as more of a "Cirque thing" and I began looking more at what BD Entertainment has been doing through out their history... I also looked at what is being rewarded in DCI regarding visual, which used to be more heavily drill ( ala Cavaliers) but is now more of what BD does with movement ) visual... I also thought about who teaches where and their former connections to other staffs. I thought about the recent appearance of Crown on ABC/Disney's television parade. I thought about Crown's design connections as well. I also began thinking about Sound Sport and Drumline Battle. Finally, I thought about all the G7 stuff that I could bear to think about, George Hopkins' theory about there being only 6 super corps in the future back in the day when he first said it (paraphrasing here), and the whole MIM (Music in Motion) idea. I have some thoughts and observations about where I see "the powers that be" trying to move DCI, and by extension the marching music activity. While doing some of this hobby research, particularly about Blast!, one of the unfortunate things that I've found is that http://www.starofindiana.com/ is no longer up (Someone helped me find the old site in archived form, so I responded below with some updated information), so I couldn't go back and get Jim's or Mr. Cook's previous quotes about Star, Brass Theater, or Blast! history. Now, I understand who maintained that site, so I'm not totally suprised about the site is no longer hosted, but it's unfortunate that we no longer have this resource that is easily accesible (EDIT Found a way to view those old pages see another post below) . Luckily, I remember Star History pretty well. The next best thing I found was the blast! site here: http://www.blasttheshow.com/history.html I remember that Star left DCI after 1993 to pursue "Brass Theater" with Canadian Brass. They didn't want to "just" perform a 10 minute field show ( not really that educational), and they wanted to use more instruments and explore other performance opportunities. Brass Theater finally morphed into Blast! and the various iterations of Blast! For those that remember, Brass Theater added trombones, concert euphoniums, concert french horns, concert tubas, and mic'd vocals. Brass Theater also used Star's '93 uniforms, Star '87 dragon flags, theater lighting, and had reliance upon lots of music vetted from old Star shows and other Drum and Bugle Corps... Here's a clip of that for your reference. Pay attention to Thom Hannum's comment at 7:10 " it's setting the ground work for some future direction for different types of organizations". Is this foreshadowing of where DCI's currently is being pushed from all the way back in 1994? It appears that DCI has finally caught up with the original Brass Theater and Blast! Instrumentation (Not talking about Cyberjam or Shockwave for this discussion). Brass Theater lasted only for a few years. Next, I wanted to see how Blast! is marketed and see if maybe this is the route DCI may be gravitating towards. In the past, I've gone to the blast! website, and read the history section, which credited "drum corps", Star, and Brass Theater as the inspiration for Blast! . I always thought it was amazing for Mason and company to give credit to their past of Drum Corps and Star of Indiana, Colts, Madison Scouts, while moving forward with Brass Theater and Blast!... The current Blast! history section discusses one man's "vision of an incredible musical voice that had never before been realized… A form of performance in combination with a new kind of virtuoso musician that the world had never before encountered. It was the vision that drove the amazing and unstoppable engine that has resulted in one of the most unique, beloved and enduring forms of new entertainment." The current inspiration for Blast! has completely removed all references to Brass Theater, Star of Indiana, and Drum Corps/Marching Band in general... Internationally, Blast! is/has touring/toured places already successfully vetted by corps such as the Madison Scouts (Europe), The Cavaliers (Japan), and the Blue Devils (Japan) during previous visits. I wanted to find more information on this and went to the M.E.G (Mason Entertainment Group) website and found their Promo Press Release video which was VERY interesting to me, and everyone should check it out: http://www.megshows.com/promo.html There is a pretty obvious distancing of the Blast! from the marching band and drum corps worlds, yet they go to places where people have been exposed to/turned on to Drum Corps and play pieces that were proven on the Drum Corps field. Some of the comments on the video follow: It's "unlike anything that anyone has ever seen before" "It's music in motion, and dancing, and drumming" "Blast! is music put into motion with amazing imagery that takes you on an emotional journey. “- James Mason "What inspired Blast! was working with exceptionally gifted young musicians for over 30 years. ... It only seemed natural to try and feature this resource and expose this energetic group to the masses. What MEG does is visualize music." -James Mason "When Blast! first exploded onto the stage more than ten years ago they were so far ahead of their time that they invented their own genre." - MEG female voice... "...writing of a new album contains more original material this time aimed at the top 40 hip hop and dance market has already begun. This material, combined with the classics and state of the art technology puts Blast! in a position to create stadium, amphitheatre, concert hall, casino, large scale convention entertainment, world class theme parks, and television extravaganzas... In addition, MEG is creating a scaled down version of the Blast! brand to meet the overwhelming demand coming from smaller capacity venues..." -MEG female voice. To me, this looks familiar to things I’ve heard when talking about Drum Corps International corps. Next, I considered BD Entertainment and examined that organization’s résumé. I've included some of the venues they've performed in here, so they may easily be seen without following the link below if you don't want to do so: http://bdentertain.com/resume/ International Experience 21st Century Celebration – Osaka, Japan 5th International Drumming Festival – Seoul, South Korea Carnaval – Nice, France European Performances – Holland, Germany, Belgium, France, Italy Mitsui – Greenland, Japan Okayama Music Festival – Okayama, Japan World Cup Soccer – Trinidad Theater Experience throughout the United States Chicago, Illinois Cincinnati, Ohio Denver, Colorado Indianapolis, Indiana Los Angeles, California Madison, Wisconsin Orlando, Florida San Antonio, Texas SF Bay Area Ypsilanti, Michigan Corporate and Convention Experience Sporting Events Collaborative Performances Maynard Ferguson Bobby Shew Chuck Mangione Stan Kenton Buddy Rich Ralph Humphrey Dave Weckl Steve Houghton Peter Erskine Bob Montgomery David Garibaldi many more... Live Performances Appearances at movie premieres and television commercials Appearances at numerous sporting events and political inaugurations Appearances on The Today Show on NBC Closing Ceremonies of the Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta (August 1996) Ellen DeGeneres Show Jerry Lewis MDA Telethon Live performance at the 5th International Drumming Festival – Seoul S. Korea Millennium Celebrations – New York City Opening Ceremonies for the NASCAR Chevy Monte Carlo 400 The Late Show with David Letterman on CBS 250,000 people annually Seen by over 1 million on PBS Special Events Academy of Friends 25th Annual Academy Awards Gala – San Francisco, CA Chamberlin Associates Holiday Party Grand Opening of Improvement Information Center Grand Opening of New Macy's Store – Antioch, CA Great America Winter Wonderland - Santa Clara, CA Holiday Christmas Party Chamberlain Associates – San Ramon, CA Hornblowers – San Francisco, CA Macy's Holiday Parade Kick-off – San Francisco, CA Nike Women’s Marathon Nordstrom's Anniversary Sale Kick-off – San Francisco, CA Opening of Dianetics & Scientology Life Improvement Information Center – Mountain View, CA Opening of Dougherty Valley Performance Center – San Ramon, CA Opening of Historic Golden Phoenix Hotel and Casino Condos – Reno, NV Opening of Pixar's Brave Opening of Special Olympics – Concord, CA Opening of Westfield Mall – San Francisco, CA Pixar Wrap Party and PR Events – Emeryville, CA Pixar's Monsters University soundtrack – Nicasio, CA (Skywalker Ranch) Pixar/Disney Wrap Party and PR Events – Emeryville, CA Pleasant Hill Senior Center Picnic San Francisco Convention & Visitor’s Bureau Annual Luncheon – San Francisco, CA SOCAP Convention – San Francisco, CA XL Entertainment School Performances YMCA of Silicon Valley “Walk a Mile in Her Shoes” Event Looks like BD Entertainment is keeping pretty busy in a multitude of venues… Next I looked at what some of the other corps are doing Carolina Crown @ the 2013 Disney Parks Christmas Parade: Santa Clara Vanguard (and Pacific Crest and SCV Cadets) playing with the 2013 Los Angeles Phil Harmonic: So where is DCI headed? Look above. To me it appears that DCI is positioning itself to live in a "Blast!-like" world where they are not encumbered by "Drum Corps" history. This is happening by changing the product (design, rewarded design, instrumentation) little-by-little every so often until it gets to where it needs to be to fit into that "Blast!-like" world circa 1999. That’s going to tick off a bunch of people and they know it, so the slow and steady route has been the best way to go. So far so good. We’ll all react badly to different changes, and many of us will pit ourselves against others who have a slightly different version of the activity. Some "customers" will stop attending DCI shows, but other “customers” will still attend. The losses will not be enough at one time to destabilize the organization in the same way it would have been had DCI chosen to make all these changes at once. This will allow DCI to continue to be viable until they get to where they want to be, unencumbered by history and tradition and free to provide entertainment in motion all over the world! Yes, $$$$. So, people complaining on here will basically do nothing. There’s obviously a plan being set in motion. We are now there instrument-wise, visually, and getting pretty close design-wise. Yes, DCI groups are heading to stadiums as always, but they're also going to regularly venture into amphitheaters, concert halls, casinos, large scale convention entertainment venues, world class theme parks, and television extravaganzas... Visual will no longer emphasis drill, as that doesn't work as well in the smaller venues as it does in a stadium. This will help DCI groups to scale down (Sound Sport, Drumline Battle) in size and make-up to meet the demand coming from smaller capacity venues... Just look at where many corps and their sub-groups have been going lately. Do these locations sound familiar? Does that idea sound familiar to you? Read some of what I've found above again if it doesn’t. It sounds pretty exciting, eh? I really don't believe Drum Corps International cares that much about instrumentation anymore, or even the emotional stuff that so many use to define the “drum and bugle corps” activity. This is no longer about the "Drum and Bugle corps" artform, it's about a different animal. Drum Corps International is positioning itself to be something like Cirque, Blast!, Shockwave, MIX, or whatever. Drum Corps International is a business and the “students”, designers, and instructors are resources to be utilized. It looks like the wheels have been in motion to make this happen for some time; the seeds have been planted a long time ago, and we've been given hints of what is going to happen here and there. It’s just been baby steps to get to the ultimate place. Drum Corps International has been the proving ground where ideas have been tried, lessons have been learned, experiments have been conducted, and contacts have been made in order to get to something else. Now it’s time for the organization to grow up and go apply the lessons learned in the real world. It should be an interesting next decade for sure. I just wanted to point out that I'm not giving an opinion on my personal feelings about the conclusion above, but my conclusion is based on observation and what I’d do based on those observations made above; feel free to criticize however you want. It’s all good. You’ll notice that I have quoted people. Where named, I have found these quotes from the previous videos before the quote. This is what the people have said or written in the video. I don't believe that I've made anything up. I will say that it seems rather genius to test tunes, arrangements, and concepts in Drum Corps International with the hardcore audiences and then take the very best ideas from there to sell to a larger general audience. There are some pretty smart business ideas set in motion. The next logical step would be for DCI to further distance itself from the old "Drum Corps International" name and simply become "DCI", just as "Kentucky Fried Chicken" became simply "KFC" or "Sci-Fi" became "Syfy". They benefit from not having to maintain historical ties to "Drum and Bugle Corps". The instrumentation limits of Drum and Bugle corps go away, marching band stigma is loss, and "the art" of Drum and Bugle Corps can be expanded to DCI art. The DCI moniker will have great brand recognition. DCI's brand won't be as easily confused with that pesky "Drum Corps Associates" group as "Drum Corps International" currently is... Promote DCI (or MIM) through the experience and life lessons, and tout the performances and excellence as the ultimate in some "new" art form of music and motion, coupled with a cutting edge show design fitting various venues. Outreach to even more places in the world such as South America, Thailand, and even Eastern Europe. Maybe make a little trip to South Africa to raise awareness to the possibilities of music in motion. With the design freedom of DCI, the creative doors will burst forth and Boom!, new International markets will open up to tap. It's working for so many other American institutions, why not DCI? Ultimately Blast! or BD Entertainment will still be THE ultimate in this kind of experience, but there should be enough revenue to sustain this new activity and its designers for a good while. There could even be a larger market for many more paid performer wages. Taking what basically was started back in the early 90s with Star, Brass Theater, and Blast! and and applying it to Drum Corps International today seems to be the destination for "DCI" today based on what I can see.** **This is the "DCI Big Picture" stuff mind you, I haven't thought about the specifics on each member corps specifics and strategies, but you can see that there are certain organizations who are more actively and publically moving towards this than others. They're also doing things in their own ways, but collectively, the member corps are ticking all the boxes in my mind. Any thoughts?

Being a relative newcomer to DCP (though not to music...I've been a student and teacher of music for 46 of my 54 years), I hope this isn't a rehashing of any earlier topic. Being that as it may... I am interested in knowing how each of you who post became involved with Drum and Bugle Corps. For any who answer, please indicate (if you kindly will) any performance-based involvement you have had in the past. Corps and instrument included, I hope. For those of you who have never marched DC, please give your reason for coming to love this wonderful activity. I'm sorry if this doesn't seem pertinent...however, given the relative strife which has permeated some of the boards over the past couple of weeks, I thought a relaxed respite might be in order. Oh...and it might give thought to some who are currently of the "bye...I'm done with all of this" crowd. Sometimes, it doesn't hurt to know why you loved something in the first place. To any who I am offending with this topic...I'm sorry. And that is genuine...believe me. I'll save my story for a later date.

In before the Aaargh. If you have no idea what this is, shame on you!

You know, stupid as I sound, I would never have gotten this from looking at his picture at that age. If it's appropriate to introduce one story, he was judging Lewisburg in the early 80s and there was rain - I was in the judges room BSing with Pepe and this fellow came in and entered the conversation. He said (and Andy, don't get mad - I didn't make it up)..."you know, I saw the Vice President of the United States the other day and he said "hi _____ - The VP calls me by my first name" "I've performed in front of Emporers, Crowned Princes, Shahs, Presidents, Senators, you name it and received standing ovations and accolades... so you can imagine how I felt when the staff of the Skyliners came into last week's critique and informed me I didn't know the first thing about music or drum corps and I should ####ing resign" Pepe and I were laughing so hard I thought one of us would throw an embolism. I don't think I've known anyone in my life that could be so low-key and so powerful in the same breath.

OK I need help from the heavy hitters here - the arrangement (brilliant) was his, but my understanding is that he did NOT bring the idea to the Rebs, and that one of the visual/show guys was responsible for it. I used to know the guy's name - in my old age only the word "Moss" is coming through, but not at all sure. When the Rebs' Alumni group performed Requiem for the 25th reunion I was fortunate enough to be brought in to do the brass. I had worked Larry K's chart of the "Civil War" for Bridgemen in 1984 and was blown away working the Rebels'. One of my favorite nights in my drum corps history was the Rebs' show at Parkland HS (is that right Tony or Fran?) that year, replete with smoke machines, lighting effects, the brass line split throughout the auditorium. I've been with a lot of good, very good, maybe excellent alumni drum corps, and whether that was the single best performance I don't think I can answer, but it had to be right there. I wish there were a YouTube recording of that night... pretty special. This guy was the real deal, not that any of us ever doubted it.

sql for oracle is cool I'm also reminded of the legend of the programmer dropping a box of un-numbered cards. 2 current collegues started as punch card clerks. They have interesting stories of the human contribution to the digital age. As an aside, in 1976 I was a T&P and M&M judge in training. I felt that the young, 9-13 years, should be judged for achievement and the 14-21 year olds be judged for excellence. There are reasons why I rarely contribute to tic system judging discussions. I remember our tape library in the 1980's was the size of a gymnasium. To provide prompt service, the tape librarians were encouraged to wear roller skates. We tried tape retrieval with a mechanical arm but the arm went down often due to mechanical issues. CrownBariDad quoted 'Disc drives the size of washing machines'. I remember that! After the roller skate tape retrieval era, we got new disc drives. I though I was in a laundromat during a drum corps tour free day lol

It's too expensive for new corps to start up and be viable.

that was the most incredible show back then. when i saw it at mission drums the first time i was in awe. we all were.

oh and was he the boss of the marine drum & bugle corps?

Not the Cavs, but their cross-town rivals in blue.

if you think dcp is "the market," i've got some oceanfront property in arizona to sell you.

smiling politely that you guys are going in and out on this one as it's so obvious who it is... he hardly changed over the years... Endicott was a HUGE hint... how many arrangers were born there? Which also explained why he and Corky Fabrizio (from nearby Cortland) had a friendship and respect for each other... HUGE Hint... think Military

This is the strangest way I've ever heard anyone ask for reviews. lol I should try this strategy with money. "Whoever has tens of thousands of spare dollars, but hasn't found anywhere to spend it, here is the bag you can put it in"

As a young kid I lived across the street from Manning Bowl in Lynn MA on Rt 107. From our 2nd floor front porch I could see over the wall into the stadium. I would watch all of the Corps compete and asked my mother if I could join one of them. She agreed that I could when I was old enough to across the street..... LOL I joined our local Jr Corps from Lynn and, as my proficiency increased, I was invited to move up. As I got older I moved on to Sr Corps. (All age now)..... My Corps history is in my signature....

I sometimes post intuitively and research after SGML sounds right as does GML and Script/VS in this familiar pdf document http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/370/DCF/GH20-9175-1_Document_Composition_Facility_Rel_2_Program_Summary_Oct79.pdf It was a mainframe word proccessing software to provide italic, bold etc. that used tags similar to HTML. I'm into SQL and XML now (btw the L in all the acronyms is for Language not Linda lol)

How about Drum Corps International. I don't see what has changed that requires a name change. The NFL changes rules and equipment all the time, but it's still called the National Football League. When games began being played inside, was there a push to change the NFL to the NSIFL (National Sometimes Inside Football League)? I understand this topic is supposed to be funny and lighthearted, but at what point is it overkill. I am shocked at how much folks are upset by what type of brass instrument members carry in their hands. Z

Delicious Chocolate Intonation

but not the ears

Not far enough! Who needs a double-belled euphonium when you can have a double-rauschpfeife?

They will never allow actual human sacrifice on the field. They will never allow full frontal nudity on the field. They will never allow the detonation of land mines on the field. They will never perform non-anesthetized open heart surgery on the field... Yes, there are certainly some things I wouldn't put money on never being allowed And some I would bet that will never be allowed that I'm sure I'll end up wrong about in time. BUT - While I get there have been many changes that have surprised many people over the years, (and will likely continue to be in the future,) the logic of this only goes so far.

Thank you!!!!! You have just pointed out the absurdity of people claiming DCI judging is based on objective calculations instead of the reality which is that DCI is a competition solely based on subjective opinion (disguised as quantifiers)!!!!

I'm sorry, but I can't be bothered to read a supposedly brilliant post that's any shorter than 3,000 words.

I'm very disappointed that "I want all sousaphones to be put in rockets and sent to the far side of the moon - back to the aliens that created them." was not part of the list of options.

1. A lot of the most influential voices will be in or near retirement in five years. (That's code for Hopkins and, to a lesser extent, a few others.) The challenge with having a long period of history with a limited number of highly influential people is that there's a huge void that can't be immediately filled when they leave. Even if you don't like Hopkins, you have to admit that he's been successful getting the activity moving in the direction he wanted. It may have taken time, but he's pulled it off. I think we're going to see an Apple-post-Jobs type of slump when the current leaders aren't in the picture any more. You'll have creative innovators, but I suspect you won't have anyone like Hopkins for a while who can galvanize the community, even while polarizing it at times. 2. Drum corps will become even more of a rich kids' activity. For all the talk about making membership more appealing and accessible to a more diverse group of youth, there's been very little, if any, movement in that direction. With gas prices rising and the financial stressors that innovations like trombones, woodwinds, electronics and now technologies bring, participating in drum corps is going to continue to get more and more expensive. Who's going to be able to afford to participate? A pretty narrow bandwidth of kids. 3. Related to #2, the chasm between the haves and have-nots in drum corps will continue to widen. For the playing field to be leveled (or just more level), we fans would have to demand it. The governing structure itself isn't going to produce a level playing field. Like most institutions, drum corps governance is conservative - self-protecting. Real change in this arena would have to be demanded by the fans. And while we like the idea of a David kicking a Goliath's buttocks, we're not willing to pay the price. We would need to be ok with not seeing the kinds of high-glitz, resource-rich shows that the top 7 or so have the ability to field. At the end of the day, we want our handful of really shiny shows, even though they come at the cost of true parity. 4. The fan base will continue to be more and more fragmented. Consider what drum corps looked like over the first 20 years of DCI's existence and what it has been over the last 20 years. There has been a LOT more evolution over the last 20 years than the first, and there's an accelerating amount of change on the five year horizon. Ultimately, fans, who will mostly identify with drum corps as it existed when they marched, will have more and more disparate views about what drum corps should look like since they'll represent more and more evolutionary points in drum corps history. 5. Drum corps will absolutely survive. I'm not one of the nay-sayers that says we're headed to extinction. That said, we will still be looking for the magic bullet to solve the financial, operational and performance issues we're scratching our heads about today.

full blown band

No mention on DCI's site yet. Nor FoxNews, CNN, or the BBC. I'm watching though.

It makes a sort of a "tinny" crunch sound when you back a bus over one....

DCI scoring is based on how the corps directors themselves want to be judged, so they will amend the sheets to accommodate any "poopy" sound of any instruments they allow. I think that it's even possible that "simultaneous demand" scores will increase. "Look how well you move your feet and those slides! Wonderful!" Other than the glis, is there anything unique about a trombone sound?

I didn't say Hop proposed this did I? But his previous pushes to change the activity have led to this. It's called a domino effect dude. You open Pandora's box and it changes everything forever. Other than the Bb change I can't agree with any other rule change. Amps, other instruments, vocals... it's ruined the activity for me.

And the stupidity continues. How long will the clowns who run DCI be allowed to continue to run the Drum Corps activity into the ground? It should be clear to everyone that the Drum Corps activity began its decline at the same time that Drum Corps started looking & sounding more & more like marching bands. What made the Drum Corps activity great & so popular was the fact the Drum Corps were so much DIFFERENT than bands.

I apologize but this may take a while. I have read a lot of sports metaphors relative to this thread. A lot of talk about money, logistics and talk about competition. (Slight pause) To say that I grew up in a competitive neighborhood would be an understatement. My best friend outside of drum corp grew up across the street from me. He became the captain of our high school football team and then went on to captain his college football team. His 2 older brothers both played professional football (NY Giants of the NFL and Boston/New Orleans Breakers of the USFL). Next door to them and directly across the street from me was a young man who went on to play college hockey for the U. of Lowell, Ma. Directly next door to him was a young man who played hockey at West Point and right next door to him lived a young man who ended up playing hockey for the Boston Bruins as a defenseman. That's 3 professional athletes and 3 college athletes out of 4 houses sitting right next to each other. I played high school football and hockey but I, along with almost all of the kids in that neighborhood, enjoyed growing up playing back yard tackle football, street hockey and ice hockey together. We could play back yard ice hockey together because we use to build a little hockey rink in a freinds back yard. We were competitive against each other and we were crazy. We would play a football game that entailed everyone being at one end of the yard with the exception of one guy whom we would throw the ball to and his objective was to try to run past everyone with out getting tackled or I suppose killed. Our little hockey rink? When we got bored we would put our goalie net in the middle of the rink and skate around it playing roller derby on skates. The goal was to try to check anyone you could over the surrounding snow banks. It was great fun to catch a glimpse of someones skates as they disappeared over the little white mountains we had created. My belabored point is this. I understand competition. So, to a soon to be 55 year old, the question one could ask is what do I reminisce most about? I don't think much about the various sports teams I played on or even all that back yard fun I had. I reminisce most about the 5 years I spent marching with the Boston Crusader's and none of those memories has anything to do with competing. My memories are about performing in front of thousands of drum corp fans who loved listening and watching us perform and I certainly reminisce about all the fun we had off the field as well. In fact I can't imagine another drum corp having as much fun as we did. (I know using the word fun sounds lame but I'm trying to make a point) I remember putting on the uniform and the pride I felt wearing what I thought was the classiest uniform of any drum corp. This despite the little rips and tears and the faded colors we tried our best to hide. Not from shame but from pride. We had no money. We had no money! My first year was 1974, I was one of only 24 brass and we came in 37th place in the DCI prelims 25.150 points behind the Madison Scouts. This from a drum corp that came in 2nd place in the VFW nationals 4 years earlier. That night I had one of the most memorable nights of my life hanging out with my fellow Crusader's in Ithaca, NY. We had fun. In an early thread on another topic I wrote about the mistakes the Crusader's made back in my day. Mistakes that kept us from getting out of our own way. This thread isn't about what we did wrong back in my time it's about what we did right. And what did we do right? We survived! I can understand if some people think I'm being naive when I make the statement that drum corps folded because they let themselves fold. But I ask you. No, I'm going to tell you that if all those drum corps that folded back in the day had the same attitude about competing and money as the Boston Crusader's had then they would all still be around today. All of them. I can't imagine another drum corp facing the challenges that the Crusader's did back in the day. We would have a lot more smaller drum corps, ones barely getting by financially with kids that are maybe not from the most affluent homes, kids that might not be all that talented, hanging out with their buddies talking about what a great show they just performed that night. And they wouldn't be talking about how they could have come in 6th place instead of 7th if they only had the money to afford that 45th piece of equipment for their pit that night. Over-emphasis on winning leads to chronic disappointment and very little fun and fewer Drum Corps. I grew up playing sports and playing drum corp and I'm stating right now that in my opinion sports can not rise to the level of Drum Corp as to what it can offer a kid. What sport do you know of that has, lets say, 75 to 150 young women, young men, boys and girls performing together. Performing all forms of music while creating artistic designs in front of thousands of fans. Well, I suppose you couldn't name any. I suppose it wouldn't be a sport it would be either a band or a drum corp. I'm obviously getting a bit tired. Anyways, I didn't go out for the high school football team until my senior year. I was really a hockey player who got talked into playing football by my best friend who lived across the street and was captain of the team and blah,blah, blah. I ended up as a 2nd string running back who returned kick offs and punts. (I loved it but I wouldn't recommend it. Lots of headaches.) I played in front of maybe 150 people. In the Boston Crusader's I started out as a 3rd Sop then a 2nd then a lead and then the soloist in the '79 prelims in which we had only 25 brass but still managed to come in 12th place in GE brass . I mentioned this, too many times, in other topics. I played in front of thousands of people. (I also mentioned in a previous thread that in my opinion the best ovation we had that year was when we put on a half time show for the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian football league. Their were 54,000 people at the game and they gave us some great ovations throughout the show.) In '79 we had about 60 people in our entire corp and we came in 19th place mainly because we threw out 2 of our 5 snare drummers about 2 weeks before the DCI championship. Why? because they were @#%%$#@. So are drum line came in 35th place and our drum corp came in 19th and we hardly had any money and so unfortunately....we had a great time that night hanging out with each other. We always had a great time in '79. Maybe this ramble needs a summation but I'm hoping not. I know I'm not giving specifics about how to save drum corp but then again maybe I am. I understand that money is an inevitable reality for drum corp but it's far from the point isn't it? I suppose how far from the point is the question.