Fred Windish Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The FN is not comparable to attending live events. You can't just add up the cost of tickets, gas, concessions, etc and promote a "savings" vs seeing a live performance. Unlike some major sports, an online stream for drum corps will never come close to the value of seeing a show live. Yes, the two are quite different. Each offers advantages the other does not. I've found viewing drum corps to be an entirely different experience with multi-cam, close-ups, etc. At this point in my life, the 'at-home' access is very appealing. My interest is not driven by any financial savings, I assure you. By the way, I have attended hundreds of live drum corps shows all around the country. I truly know what I'm missing. Still do attend, but not often. Enjoy however you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStainGlass Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 So who knows how to download a stream while watching :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Yet, DCI still operates Fan Networks for other circuits, and left their own online with hundreds of on-demand streams until June 12th. DCI also has a YouTube channel with hundreds of video streams available on demand. That has not been pulled down. There must be another explanation. Quite possibly, and I'd love to hear it. My guess, and it's only that, regarding DCI's Fan Network is that once they pulled the several dozen offending videos in December, they could leave the rest up until the annual subscriptions they expired, but now they just don't have the staff support to manage archives subscriptions this summer while also trying to deal with the copyright problem. As for other circuits for which DCI operates Fan Networks, I have no idea. WGI, to which I pay no attention, reportedly has been working on its own licensing solution. DCA's archives are apparently unavailable this summer with any streaming happening through DCI's site, presumably with the same limitations. (Edit: on the DCA forums, it's just been stated that DCA streams will actually show on DCA's own site.) DCUK operates under different copyright laws. Are there others? DCI's Youtube videos, which are generally not full shows, may be covered under something that approximates Fair Use as written into the licensing agreements. By way of comparison: I work in theatre. Our agreements with writers, actors, musicians, directors, and designers (largely collective bargaining agreements with their unions) allow us to record an entire play but only to post short clips on the web. It's also possible that DCI is simply overlooking some of its online content and still hasn't had time to reveiw every one of its Youtube videos to ensure they're all compliant. Presumably DCI was not running every video they posted over the past several years by a lawyer first to make sure it didn't violate a licensing agreement. Maybe they should have been, but again, that cost would have to be charged back to the corps in some way, which would mean, maybe, no ramps for Bloo or trampolines for Crown last year. Or higher dues for the members. Any of which the corps directors would presumably balk at. Edited June 15, 2015 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) The FN is not comparable to attending live events. You can't just add up the cost of tickets, gas, concessions, etc and promote a "savings" vs seeing a live performance. Unlike some major sports, an online stream for drum corps will never come close to the value of seeing a show live. Fred only hit some of the reasons to pick FN over seeing live. Some of us have issues beyond monetary costs going on as we get older and/or have other priorities. Edited June 15, 2015 by JimF-LowBari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Flores Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Luckily, I have the entire Legacy collection and DVD's from 2000-2014 ripped to mp4 and served on my Plex Media Server at home. Therefore I can watch at the gym, work, whilst out and about, etc. I am still very upset at the live offerings and no VOD ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogitom Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Only for two show West and Midwest... unless I am missing something. They are only showing the first 2 shows of the schedule on the purchase page. They will disappear and the next 2 shows will appear and so on until the end of the season. The original story they posted on 6/4 states it is pay-per-view with subscription bundles also available. http://www.dci.org/ViewArticle.dbml?&SPSID=965782&SPID=166025&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=210138208&DB_OEM_ID=33500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) after some discussion on a Facebook post I made over the weekend, I have changed some of my views in defending DCI. I'll repost below: I've thought long and hard about your post. You're right.... And you're wrong. DCI waited Til the 11th hour to withhold information they knew would be unpopular. I've been among their most vocal defenders since everything went haywire in December but in hindsight they blew it by saying nothing. They had the perfect opportunity to win support by being the small guy attacked by corporate giants. Let's forget the fact dci all but ignored proper copyright laws for years. They had the victim card to use and didn't. So now, for $4 less than I paid last year including finals, unless I give up having a life, I see maybe 1/3 of what I did for $4 more last year. Imagine all the DCA participants that subscribed and rushed home Sunday to watch that now can't. It's worthless to them. I've tried to defend dci's PR and marketing but in this, going back to December they dropped more balls than the Phillies outfielders. They knew waiting Til the last moment was going to #### people off, but now that the facts of what you don't get are being digested, they're going to see a huge drop in revenue. The Shame of it is: if they had played the victim card, people would be so much more forgiving. Clearer picture and better sound means crap if you can't watch the next day or later at night because you have a life. I will buy it, because like most things DCI, if you don't you're ####ed. I'll be loud if there's feed issues. But to pay the same for essentially less, and to have to find out at the very last minute is very poor customer service, even for DCI. I get why they chose not to go the victim route...to some it can be viewed as unseemly. but for once, DCi actually could have gotten support if they had. We know the licensing issues that arose in December aren't entirely of their making ( again ignoring years of DCi ignoring licensing).....but some communication could have gone a long way. And i'm sure some of those that feed me info will be ###### reading this. I don't really care. You'll get your share of my money in the fall as always because if I don't buy it, well, I'll see nothing. Edited June 15, 2015 by Jeff Ream 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 As a lawyer who has some experience in Copyright law (although not an expert by any means), I find the explanations as to why we can't have On Demand streaming this season to be bizarre. It really is not that difficult, at all, to get a license that covers both live broadcast and replays ... and for the type of content we're talking about here, it shouldn't be that expensive to get the additional rights (in fact, I would be shocked if they had to pay anything more for them at all). Without knowing anything about what is actually going on behind the scenes, it seems to me that DCI's real problem is that they are not getting very good legal advice on copyright issues. The copyright issues can get a bit complicated, but they shouldn't pose the major problem that the DCI feedback suggests. The back catalog is a different issue ... it can be solved very easily, but it will take some time and work. But with respect to this year's shows, there really is no excuse for not having all necessary rights cleared before the season starts. When I was in high school band, it was the responsibility of every school to make sure the necessary rights for the music they were performing were obtained. The state organization promulgated form license agreements that schools could use to get the clearances they needed. If DCI isn't requiring the individual corps to get the necessary clearances for their respective shows ahead of time, they have no one to blame but themselves. It should be a requirement that if you can't get the copyright clearance, you can't use the music. If they don't get a handle on this stuff, this whole organization is likely to go down in flames pretty quickly. Online content has to be a key part of DCI going forward if it is going to survive and thrive. I just don't see how I can justify paying for only live streaming. I am not available for half the shows. I was really looking forward to seeing a preview of many of the shows this next week, but since they won't be available on demand, it doesn't look that is going to be a possibility. Add the fact that my local DCI show has been all but abandoned by the top corps and it is becoming very difficult to see myself staying invested in drum corps for very much longer. I never marched in the corps, and therefore my personal ties are not as deep as others. I find it very entertaining though, which is why I have been a fan network subscriber for several years. DCI's negligence in taking care of these issues (which have been around for years) is going to make it difficult for fans like me to stay involved. There has not been any significant changes in the copyright laws in the last few years. The law regarding on demand streaming is exactly the same as it was last year and the year before. If I had to guess, DCI has received a few cease and desist letters from some copyright trolls. A good lawyer would take care of those pests pretty quickly, but I can see how they would freak out an organization without the appropriate legal support. I realize that DCI does not have a ton of resources, but they need to make this copyright issue a priority by hiring an experienced, competent copyright attorney to advise them and help them draft some form license agreements that will allow them to offer the services to fans that they need to offer. This isn't a new issue ... they've been trying to deal with it for years. It's also not a hard issue, though, with the right legal advice. There really is no excuse that they don't have it solved by now. what's your fee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sufficient numbers of DCI customers are apparently still willing to pay good money to DCI for this, despite poor and late communication from DCI, missed deadline dates for announced roll outs, confusion on the part of many customers on what the services will actually entail, and so forth. So yes, it does appear that sufficient numbers of DCI customers are apparently satisfied with being treated shabbily and will apparently tolerate mediocrity in customer service from DCI. we'll see about that. i'd be surprised if subscription numbers are released this year. I know a whole lot of DCA folks not bothering since there's no DVR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf144 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 That may be the analogy of the century! How horrible is the Phil's outfield. Oh wait - they recalled Dom Brown (again). We're saved!! I've tried to defend dci's or and marketing but in this, going back to December they dropped more balls than the Phillies outfielders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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