Tim K Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, shawn craig said: Madison Scouts are all "Boy Scouts" (I believe I read it's a special category they all join if not already a Scout). But the " Boy Scouts" are now just the "Scouts" and i believe no longer all male. Therefore I wonder if Madison retains the "Scout" affiliation if they'll have a choice, especially if or more likely when the issue comes up. There's a part of me that likes the all male traditions of Madison and Cavaliers. But there's a part of me that says it's time to move on and be coed. Very mixed feelings. Scouting organizations have lots of options regarding admitting young women, so I don’t think the changes in scouting would impact Madison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetOFFmyDot Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 When it comes to gender issues, there are MASSIVE generational differences. Traditional gender roles (and to a lesser extent, even the concept of gender), mean dramatically less to younger (read: future members) than older folks (read: alumni). Look at how many previously gender-segregated things are no longer the "default": many colleges have coed dorms (some even coed bathrooms and rooms), fraternity/sorority numbers are at the lowest rates in history, etc.... Choosing to remain single-sex is choosing to become irrelevant. I know many will disagree, but gender (as we have known it) is rapidly changing. Relatedly, I really hated the all-female Phantom Regiment color guard and VERY glad they are now co-ed again. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 hours ago, DCI-86 said: I appreciate the uniqueness of having an all male corps but they have been clearly struggling with talent levels in the last few years. Going co-ed would double the talent available to them or maybe they should go all female ;-) talent or design is really the big question. talent hasn't hurt cavies as they claw back up....design was the issue, and thats been improving annually 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Traditions come and go I guess. In this day and age there's just NO WAY an all male corps can be in the top tier of DCI World Class... For those not sure I AM BEING SARCASTIC! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar said: I'm ambivalent. I don't buy the "widening the talent pool for a competitive advantage" argument. Madison's struggles pretty much all derive from financial issues, which has an effect on staffing and show design. Opening up membership won't automatically make them better. They used to post their board minutes online in the final years of the Scott Stewart era. Recruiting struggles due to all-male status, especially in guard, were very much front and center in their discussions for literally years. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Mello Dude said: Nothing wrong with tradition. Keep all male. It depends on whether or not the tradition is still relevant and not something that could possibly be hindering growth or even survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, MikeN said: They used to post their board minutes online in the final years of the Scott Stewart era. Recruiting struggles due to all-male status, especially in guard, were very much front and center in their discussions for literally years. Mike Fair point -- it's safe to say color guard has a strong female majority, and it would definitely open up the recruiting pool for that section. But good recruiting+competitive success+member retention mainly comes down to who's on staff ... whether it's a big name or a trusted person from within the ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 hours ago, shawn craig said: Madison Scouts are all "Boy Scouts" (I believe I read it's a special category they all join if not already a Scout). But the " Boy Scouts" are now just the "Scouts" and i believe no longer all male. Therefore I wonder if Madison retains the "Scout" affiliation if they'll have a choice, especially if or more likely when the issue comes up. There's a part of me that likes the all male traditions of Madison and Cavaliers. But there's a part of me that says it's time to move on and be coed. Very mixed feelings. The Scouts were at one time an Explorer Post affiliated with BSA. I don't know the details when all of that changed, etc. That being said, Explorer Posts have been coed for many years. Something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, GetOFFmyDot said: When it comes to gender issues, there are MASSIVE generational differences. Traditional gender roles (and to a lesser extent, even the concept of gender), mean dramatically less to younger (read: future members) than older folks (read: alumni). Look at how many previously gender-segregated things are no longer the "default": many colleges have coed dorms (some even coed bathrooms and rooms), fraternity/sorority numbers are at the lowest rates in history, etc.... Choosing to remain single-sex is choosing to become irrelevant. I know many will disagree, but gender (as we have known it) is rapidly changing. Relatedly, I really hated the all-female Phantom Regiment color guard and VERY glad they are now co-ed again. Actually, GOmD, you are behind the times. The trend right now is toward separation of the sexes (what goes around comes around I guess). All girl classes, dorms, time at the swimming pool, etc. Anyway getting back to the question at hand, I can't believe how little I care. As a wise person on here sometimes says, whatever the corps leadership decides is best to do is what they should do (thanks MikeD for that wisdom). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, GetOFFmyDot said: When it comes to gender issues, there are MASSIVE generational differences. Traditional gender roles (and to a lesser extent, even the concept of gender), mean dramatically less to younger (read: future members) than older folks (read: alumni). Look at how many previously gender-segregated things are no longer the "default": many colleges have coed dorms (some even coed bathrooms and rooms), fraternity/sorority numbers are at the lowest rates in history, etc.... Choosing to remain single-sex is choosing to become irrelevant. I know many will disagree, but gender (as we have known it) is rapidly changing. Relatedly, I really hated the all-female Phantom Regiment color guard and VERY glad they are now co-ed again. I pretty much agree with everything you said until I got to the last paragraph. I absolutely lived Phantom's guard back in 2011-2013 or so time period. So I'm glad you brought that up. It raises the issue of whether it would still be OK to have a single gender guard even if one believes it is wrong to be single gender for the rest of the corps and/or even if the remaining all-male corps go coed in general going forward. I do think there are differences. The main corps functions as a unit and focuses on uniformity. The guard has a lot more latitude to portray different things with the characteristics of individuals being more potentially relevant, including characteristics related to gender. A given show may be best served by a guard with female gracefulness or male athleticism, by the singular portrayal of a female character or type, by the singular portrayal of a male character or type, or by the portrayal of couples or relationships that would be more recognizable when portrayed by a mixture of genders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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